No, the salt is used to make a brine that washes the hard water deposits off the resin beads. It is then dumped overboard and the beads are rinsed. Then your water flows through the beads again. The beads only have so much capacity so the softening ability starts to decline as soon as it is put back in operation thus the need to set the regen cycle. But it should not add any sodium to the eater if operating correctly.
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > > RO I assume is reverse osmosis. That sounds like a great alternative to a > water softener. We had a water softener before our town got Lake Michigan > water, and while they may be a minor pain, they are still a pain. There’s > the constant bags of salt of course. But while it sounds so nice that your > water is “soft”, in reality it is just replacing calcium with sodium, and I’m > not sure it’s good to be drinking water with extra sodium. > > We did have separate plumbing for outdoor faucets that bypassed the water > softener, I assume that’s standard practice? Don’t need to water the grass > with soft water, although some people might want it to wash the car. > > > From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 8:35 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters > > I'll have to look at the brand I have. I have had tankless for about 25 years > now in 2 different houses. First, the electric ones suck and I wouldn't have > one. The gas ones of either type are great. I had a Bosch for 20 years and I > had to clean the firing tip with sandpaper twice in that time. That location > had soft water and we had no water softener. The new house has two units that > are plumbed together and if the demand gets too much for one the other fires > up and keeps up with the floor. Found out recently though that they are not > redundant. If the first one has issues the second one never comes on. > Evidently many of these forced air jobs that have PVC exhaust pipes also have > filters. Check you unit before installing it so that if yours has a filter > that has to be cleaned once a year like mine, you can easily get to it. > If you have hard water, definitely install a water softener in front of it to > lengthen its service life. My new place with the dual ones has a big water > softener. I am thinking if I ever build another I might get one of those > whole house RO units. They have come down a lot in the last few years and you > can now get a whole house RO that puts out 500 gallons a day for a couple > thousand dollars. If you are smart enough to have home run plumbing done you > could have one that is a lot less expensive only supply the hot water, sinks, > dish washer, and ice maker. > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:22 PM Colin Stanners <[email protected]> wrote: > The latter brand is likely Rinnai or Rheem. I'm surprised that you saw issues > with Takagi, I thought that they were a higher quality brand. > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]> wrote: > I am generally the first one up. I turn on the shower then the hot water tap > to brush my teeth. By the time my teeth are done the water temp has > stabilized. I have a 200Kbtu heater (actually 2 of them for two parts of the > house). I never seem to notice much of a temp difference when you are in the > shower and someone starts something else. You can hear the heater instantly > rev up when more flow is detected. Takagi were crap. Rhinni have lasted > much longer. Not sure I spelled those correctly. > > From: Nate Burke > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:43 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters > > I have a tankless for 10 years now and love it. I would replace a tank > heater with a tankless any time. We have semi-hard water. City water, > combination of river/well. Wife would like a watersoftener, I think it's > fine. > > For our 2 person household, it's been perfect. Once you are in the shower, > you never have to adjust the temperature no matter how long you stay in. > When my sister came to visit, she commented 'How do you know when to get out? > The water never gets cold" > > However, Caveats they don't tell you about when using a tankless (At least my > 10 year old model). > > It won't get as hot as a tank heater. On ours, you set the output > temperature, recommended is 120 degrees, it will adjust the flow to get you > to that temp. It can fill a tub, or the washing machine without a problem. > but you notice a flow decrease when you try to do both at once. If you want > to sanitize with only water temperature, tankless is not the way to go. > > It really does not like On/Off operation. If you are the kind of person who > rinses their dishes with 1 or 2 second bursts from the faucet, it will never > get hot. Our dishwasher fills like that, so it always send the waterheater > into a burner ignition failure (that it recovers from as soon as sustained > water is drawn) The dishwasher has it's own internal heater that raises the > water temp, so that's not a problem. > > If your spouse turns off the shower, and you jump right in, You will have > about 5 seconds of ice cold water at some point during your shower. The > water that didn't get heated yet as it went through the heater as it was > firing up the burner. > > Someone running cold water in the house has no affect on temperature, someone > running hotwater will dramatically change your temp, as suddenly the hot flow > is decreased until the heater burner ramps up to increase the output again. > Same when the other hot flow is turned off, you will get really hot. > > I de-scale my heater every 6 months. They didn't tell me to do it when I got > it, and it stopped working after a year. I use 5 gallons of vinegar and a > 1/6hp pump in a 5 gallon bucket. The heater has built in bypass valves that > make it super simple to hook up. Just let the pump run the vinegar through > for an hour (there are manufactures directions on how to do it) > > > > On 11/29/2020 10:47 AM, Colin Stanners wrote: > FYI, quick pricing example for the above > 2x Eccotemp 45HI-NG ( I can't find the -NG on Amazon easily but just for > reference here's the very similar but not compatible -LP version > https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-45HI-LP-Indoor-Propane-Tankless/dp/B00K2XLJIW/ > ) $530 USD each > 2x Descaling/service valve kits (not the Eccotemp model but these seem to be > compatible) > https://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Master-Isolator-Tankless-Pressure/dp/B07KVCFT2K/ > $60 USD each > 2x 4inch class III stainless steel vertical vent kits, with additional piping > as needed - depends greatly on your house but I'm assuming $1000 total > 1x device interconnect cable - I thought that these models were able to be > ganged, can't find the serial cable to do so but I assume it'd be <$50. > 1x descaling kit > https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EZ-Flush-System-Descaler-Cleaning/dp/B01MY7AJ9D > $150 > > By far the biggest cost would be the labour to replace the old chimney / > galvanized B vent with the new class III stainless steel piping x2. > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM Colin Stanners <[email protected]> wrote: > Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters > quite a bit for a project. > > For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may want > to look into putting one of these into your hot water path. > https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/ I wouldn't put it in the general cold > water path - while polyphosphates are safe for consumption from what I can > see, and I'd trust 3M to vet them well, I try to not add much to drinking > water, and cold water is usually mostly what is used for drinking. Maybe > check your plumbing if it's possible to add that device to the cold water > path for everywhere except the kitchen sink, where drinking water is usually > taken. The $80 USD price is almost "too good to be true" compared to a water > softener but the reviews suggest that it works well without downsides. The > cartridges are $50 each and supposedly last 6 months. > > If the chimney leaks it could be a simple fix to the rain cap or flashing, > did you inspect it? WISP experience is at least useful for judging if it's > sealed well to the roof or if the structure of the rain cap is good in strong > wind. > > I would recommend doing lots of math before assuming a solar system can run > an electric water heater for a busy family - it takes a ton of electricity to > create heat, which is why tank electric heaters take 2x-3x as much time to > recover from a cold tank as gas heaters. I don't think you'd want family > members to wait 1-2 hours for a hot shower after someone else used all the > water. As a reference, the bigger tankless heaters use a reasonable amount of > gas (~150-200K BTU) but they take an inordinate, almost frightening, amount > of electricity, ~36kW. > > Tankless math starts with available GPM (from temperature rise chart). IIRC > you're in Illinois, where groundwater temp averages 47 deg F (8 deg C in the > developed countries). Assuming that you want 120 deg water output from the > tankless heater, that's 73 deg F temp rise. That's on the higher end for a > tankless heater. If we look at the Eccotemp 45HI-NG natural gas tankless > water heater, their biggest model at ~140K BTU, the chart says that at that > temp rise it can do 2GPM, so one low-flow shower. If you want to run a > high-flow shower and a sink, or 2 showers at the same time, you'd need to buy > 2 units and the serial cable between them that allows them to run > intelligently in parallel (reducing the "not activating at low water flow" > problem by having just one of them, not both, operate in low flow conditions). > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> > wrote: > You guys all do different weird shit. Went to drain my gas heater tonite (may > have put that maintenance off longer than intended) > We are quarry country so we have super hard water. Needless to say tanks full > of baked in sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have cracked the > liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the burner, and my pop > off is dripping, probably some sediment. > > The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my > chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a dumbwaiter > in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have a blast riding > that. > > Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost. > > Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious if any > of you guys run them without major water softener and filters. > > I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so > electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater after the one I'm > gonna have to put in now. > > I like gas water heaters because I know how to fix them, parts are cheap, > same with my clothes dryers. But theyve priced themselves into me looking at > my options. > > Tankless I dont know how to calculate gpm needs. But what led to this was > taking the flow reducer out of my low flow shower head and running out of hot > water in 20 minutes. I start my day by scalding myself for about a half hour > cause I'm a filthy bastard and need to be cleansed of my sins. > We have 2 bathrooms and a girl hitting her teens, so I assume we may be > getting into a shower and bath coming on at the same time and the wife > knowing what's good for her and washing dishes. > She wont let me put a wood stove and still in the bathroom, so wood fired > shower options are out. > Are residential boilers a thing? All my walls had pocket doors so I have > plenty of room for radiant walls, I dont know if boiler heat it even > efficient though. > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > Lewis Bergman > 325-439-0533 Cell > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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