Hi Josh;
OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux
distro and Oracle. It allows one to appreciate the context. This will
certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is
information gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and
Oracle Linux distros and where to go.
Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is
currently using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be
seeking the same in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement
for CentOS. Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source
projects certainly makes one really think hard about going into their
camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.
Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use
CentOS as a start. So this will be interesting as well.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Lincs,
One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement"
for CentOS. In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need
to do is modify your repo definitions.
You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software
and appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate
otherwise. You will very rarely find a shop running OL just because
they want to.
Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed
with. I was in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first
hand how terrible Oracle's products and software really is. I have
watched companies spend *millions* of dollars on Oracle products that
are barely functional and could have been replaced with other working
solutions at a fraction of the cost. Nothing you say will convince me
otherwise :) To each his own, though!
Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to
pay for RHEL/OL. They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the
move to Debian (which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending
on how much time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL
based distros).
Cheers,
Josh
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Josh;
An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma . It
seems to miss the objective of finding an immediate, short-term
and/or possible long-term solution for a CentOS replacement for
the community. If you look at the Oracle Linux information, it is
a direct binary replacement for CentOS right out of the box;
usable right-away. Nor does it appear to be just an appliance
based product and only meant for Oracle software. That would be a
misleading characterization of their product and to an
inexperienced Linux end-user. It's almost suggesting to a person,
that you can't run other software on top of Microsoft Windows
unless it came from Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's from
Apple and so on. It does however appear that they (Oracle) are
suggesting that you will get a really great experience with their
software running on top of Oracle Linux rather than RedHat's
version or CentOS or some other Linux distro. I also think Oracle
Linux is being positioned for the cloud based network in which all
of the big-ones wants to compete head-to-head. Oracle Linux gives
Oracle sort of control as to an OS you can readily and easily pick
when on their cloud platform that is based on a well known Open
Source Linux. Makes sense for them to keep it going. I suspect
IBM is positioning itself like that as well. They now have RedHat
on their cloud platform and control its direction. They're all
aiming for AWS and Microsoft (which has Azure and Windows).
Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any contortions for the
end-user, both experienced and inexperienced Linux users can
benefit from this. Essentially one can basically continue running
a CentOS environment right now if they wish and/or choose to do so
using the Oracle Linux software. And, more importantly without
any subscription fees, i.e. for free. I think their subscription
pricing looks very reasonable as well for what its worth
especially if you're rookie and on a budget. Nothing like hand
holding from a single source, than Googling the entire net and
wading through tons of blogs and different ideas when you're stuck.
Yes, Oracle doesn't appear to always play well with the Open
Source community products. But that can be perception. But I
would say most of the big companies who use and/or own Open Source
software as their business, don't do things the free and Open
Source users like all the time. All trying to protect their turf,
products and revenue.
Oracle can be seen as the 'evil' one, don't trust them with a
10-ft pole. Likewise Microsoft, RedHat, IBM, Amazon, Google,
Apple and all those crazy new free-software licensing terms and
models software companies.
CloudLinux is also an option for a direct replacement. But this
appears to be only by subscription only for right now. When I
had last checked on it, it was not free and required a
subscription that didn't appear inexpensive. But more expensive
for someone that is usually accustomed to paying $0.00 for their
server software.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 12:16 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs Oracle Linux unless
you're using Oracle software and appliances that require you to
run OL for support.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs Chel <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi;
I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.
Consider the following from their blog, news and website:-
*
If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS
user and are in the position where you need to look at
alternatives going forward. Switching to Oracle Linux is
easy.
o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
*
Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?
o https://www.oracle.com/linux/
Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely
use them as a good guide:-
* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server
era days and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news &
comments. Probably their posture may be the best position to
take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a particular
distro which had various roadmaps during their history.
*
BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5,
but as the CentOS project never was without issues and
unpredictability. Therefore we've never been fully
"married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of
convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly
from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and favored
Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes
and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
contingencies.
* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the
original founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:-
And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom
RedHat pulled the rug out from under our feet.
In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this
to say
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL
and may even be able to hire some people for this
effort. If you are interested in helping, please
join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org
<http://hpcng.org>).
Greg (original founder of CentOS)
If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software
on CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your
operations. I am guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop
support for CentOS eventually.
Lincoln
On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big
blue. Not sure what they're getting out of their
multi-billion dollar purchase, but we would have to sit in
their board room to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be
surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all
those community developers do the work for next to nothing.
Sure cuts down on the expenses in the development department.
The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook
your wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly
because it was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for
my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the same,
but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey
enough for the small operation we are.
NBD.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no
change when IBM acquired RedHat.
*From:* AF <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing.
Starts at 350 a year per server, physical server only, and
not intended for production use. 2500 a year for the data
center if I read it right
I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm
reading correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security
patched since it's all opensource and not subsidized by a
big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
Has something like this happenned with centos historically?
I assume the linux community will bring about a comparable
solution or resolution.
This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they
just keep patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]>
wrote:
Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream? Kind of like
RHEL beta instead of RHEL day old bread. I guess their
answer would be if you are using it in a production
environment you could always pay for RHEL. Or there’s
Fedora. I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
*From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of
*Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better. ;-)
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]>
*Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go
that route, are there major differences to it?
I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially
killed centos and its
> tombstoned in 2021?
>
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know
centos but I have my
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything
that pops up.
>
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world
where something is ended
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is
it a legit end of the OS?
It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make
up a new distro if
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason
to use CentOS was
because it was rebuilt RHEL.
I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora
Core when it became
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for
testing on the peasants
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
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