In the corporate world you'll see stuff like that all the time. Someone has a target cost per household passed or per mile, and they'll get the project approved easily if they're under the target. They could spend time in meetings arguing for an exception on the cost target, or they can spend their time getting more projects approved. Their performance is measured by how many passings they get through planning, so they make compromises to get cost under the target and keep moving forward.
The bigger they are, the narrower the point of view on decision making is. You'd hope someone in management has the big picture view, but they only know what their people report to them, and if their people are supposed to report on cost per passing and passings pushed through design this month, then that's what they know and it all looks rosy from that perspective. In a smaller outfit you have a broader view of everything, and it's easier to make those big picture decisions. The alleged ruthless efficiency of corporations is somewhat of a myth. From my experiences, small businesses are more efficient. Corporations just have more money, and if you have the capital you can solve any problem, even if the solution is to build it twice. -Adam ________________________________ From: AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Josh Luthman <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2025 2:34 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? The same people that cheaped out on a $200 handhole also went cheap and only did a 48ct cable. They are now drilling new cables right on top that are 144ct. Why try to save 10% on materials when your cost/mile is 80% labor? You're going from $100 to $98. On Tue, Aug 19, 2025 at 2:08 PM Carl Peterson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The cost isn't the cable. The cost is the handhole to store the slack in. On Tue, Aug 19, 2025 at 11:21 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'm aware of another company that has the 6ft slack philosophy. They justify it as saving 20% on cable costs. People doing that are nuts. The cable is practically free compared to the cost of getting it placed. -Adam ________________________________ From: AF <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Carl Peterson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 6:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? Port Networks is in MD and FL but I live in MN. Fidium is Consolidated Communications. They do a cheap half assed underground plant overbuild with no slack or handholes. They do a combined ped with the old copper and a splice tray in it and just do about a 6' loop of fiber which they terminate kneeling on the ground next to the ped. Hopefully it never needs to be serviced in the winter but it sure is a fast / cheap way to do it. On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 4:09 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Carl, I haven't heard of Fidium. Are you located in Maryland, or is that a figment of my imagination? Thanks, Adam ________________________________ From: AF <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Carl Peterson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 3:17 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? This might now work in NY where I seem to remember Adam operates, but Fidium did an interesting half assed fiber deployment in my neighborhood where they installed secondary drop ducts in the right of way and just left them stubbed up underground. So say 1 ped which feeds the properties on either side + tw drop ducts in either direction each which stubs up between the next two houses so ~ 8-10 subs per ped. When they need to install, they just hook up a compressor to the sub duct and it blows the dirt up in the air exposing the drop duct. On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 12:07 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Well, you can't trespass with your service drop cable. If it crosses someone else's property it needs an easement. I think most commonly you place a handhole at the property line so you can hit two houses from one. One box per house might be necessary in some cases, and there might be cases where you can hit more than two from one box, but not every time. They might not have a splitter in that box. It might just provide a pulling point to get the service drop from there down the street to another box where the splitter is. It depends on the density and whether they'd rather load all the costs up front or push more of the costs into the installation phase. When we were small-fries we would push the cost to the installation so we're not spending money on customers we never sell. I'm at a bigger outfit now, and they'll make sure there's a splitter port near every customer, and each one gets documented as to which house it's for. They'll send info to the drop contractor telling them exactly which splitter location to send the drop cable to, and what path it should take. The light budget is set so you could add a 1x4 at the house.....a problem we run into is houses divided into multiple rentals are not always obvious up front, and you find out about them only when the installer is on site. As someone said, there are a zillion ways to do it, and someone does it every which way you can imagine. -Adam ________________________________ From: AF <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Ken Hohhof <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 12:13 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? OK, that helps. I assume MST avoids every installer having the equipment and training to do fusion splices. But I’m still not understanding in an underground scenario, with a handhole at every passing, what do you splice the drop cable to, and where? Is there a pre installed fiber stub in every handhole for that customer, going back to a splitter at another handhole down the street? From: AF <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 10:40 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? Splitters are waaay small. Smaller than a standard house key. What you are looking at is an MST terminal, looks like 8 ports. There can be a splitter inside of that yes. You can have the MST with 8 fibers splice to another 8 fibers or you can have what is in your picture have 1 fiber in, split 1x8, and then have 8 ports out for the installers to simply plug in to. If that MST is a 1x8, you can have a 1x4 before it, between the MST and OLT. That makes for OLT -> 1x4 splitter -> 1x8 splitter/MST. That is still a 1x32 split. On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 11:34 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I thought PON used like 16:1 or 32:1 splitters, and in this photo, I assumed that’s what the black boxes were. From: AF <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 10:16 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how is underground FTTH done? Don't assume that about aerial. That's not how it works. Don't think about it in terms of taps. Generally speaking, installations are PON. What we do is design the fiber so we can hook up 100% of homes. We assign a color to every house. The first thing to think about is that you have to access the individual strand out of the cable, be it 12/24/48/144/etc. That is done with a SpliceCase or you splice on an MST for an ez mode plug. At Imagine we only splice - no connectors, no MST, no plugs, etc. Second thing is that when there's a cable up and down the road, you just need access to it through the case/MST from the house. This can be from the house to the handhole (concrete box in the ground) or you can run it from the house to the handhole through some 1.25" duct to the next handhole where there is one case. I can show you what it looks like if you don't get it yet. On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 11:11 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The fiber train left without me, so maybe someone here can help me understand how the physical installation is typically done. I’ve seen aerial fiber and it’s pretty straightforward, I see splitters up on poles maybe at each intersection, and to hook up a customer, they run a drop wire from the nearest splitter to the house. If take rate is better than expected or a new house is built, worst case I assume they just add a splitter. But I also see FTTH deployments going in where they are boring for duct in the ROW and putting a little handhole in front of every house. How does this work? Are they using taps instead of splitters? If not, when they get a customer install order, do they pull his drop cable through all the handholes to a splitter? That doesn’t seem feasible. Are they dedicating a strand to each house and pulling the main cable out each time and splicing to that strand? And what if they estimate the take rate wrong, or a new house is built? There’s probably a simple explanation and once someone enlightens me it will be a Duh! moment. -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- AF mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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