CAF did.
From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2025 11:40 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I’m not sure about BEAD, but I think some of the other federally funded programs like CAF and RDOF required the ISP to test actual speeds on a regular basis which would seem to mean routers with something like SamKnows (acquired by Cisco) built in for some percentage of customers in each area. So that would conflict with customer providing their own router, unless they do double NAT. My memory is fuzzy but it’s possible that personal device attachment rights were part of the Net Neutrality rules and thus got thrown out. From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2025 12:10 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I have no idea where you're getting this customer own router thing. ISPs are not title II and I believe that can't come up again once we swing back to a Dem. For our FTTH, we do not do ANY inside wiring. We have a 50 foot jumper from the outside (in an outside plastic box, NID) that goes inside. One exterior wall. We plug it in and we are done. We do not do ANY copper/cate5/cat6 - this eliminates any 100baseT mess, scotch locks, customers touching it, water, etc. It's on or off - 100% speed or broken. We are providing a Calix u6x so it is our ONT + wifi router + ata. It's included with service, no exceptions. That drastically cuts down on the support calls. >Do you really run the drops one time and then just collect the monthly revenue? Yes! On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 11:46 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: I thought it was an extension of Carterfone and Part 68. Did that end up getting tied to Internet being Title I vs Title II depending on whether the D’s or R’s were in power? In any case, you can probably avoid it by including the CPE in the cost of the service so the customer doesn’t save money by buying their own router. Although some media and advocacy groups keep telling them the ISP will give you a cheap crappy router. For our WISP I tell customers they can provide their own router but not their own radio (SM) or POE injector. I think it might also change if you are providing TV or VoIP, unless you have those broken out from the ONT ahead of a separate router. In Part 68 telco terms, the question is where is the network interface. I hope nobody would argue that you need to give the customer an optical PON handoff. But it could be a GigE or 2.5 GigE handoff from an ONT. Given that I’m ignorant about FTTH, I also wonder how much inside wiring you get into. Do you run fiber to where they want the router and put an ONT there? ONT just inside the house and run Cat6 from there? Charge extra if the customer wants inside wiring? Telcos charged for anything beyond the demarc, and would also sell “Linebacker” maintenance plans for inside wiring. I’ve had 2 incidences in the past 2 days of existing customers rerouting the Cat5 to a different room and then needing help. One used butt splices and Scotchloks and it was a nightmare. The other went out and bought some passthrough plugs and a crimp tool and did a beautiful job, the problem was he had an old Ubiquiti POE with the reset button and defaulted the radio. When houses sell or get new tenants, they also often want it run to a different room. I’m not sure if fiber is any different. Do you really run the drops one time and then just collect the monthly revenue? From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2025 9:27 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question The average customer still uses 4 mbps. Doesn't matter if they have 10 mbps at home or 4,000 mbps at home. Lots of people get the 2G+ because they think they need it. That's really the driving factor, nothing technical at all. ISPs do it because we like the extra revenue. I don't know of any FCC requirement to allow the customer having their own router. Where did you hear that? On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 9:55 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: It must be a challenge if you offer multigigabit service. I see a GigaSpire 7u10txg on their website and can just imagine what that must cost. Plus maybe having to dedicate a strand and an ONU port to that customer. Presumably 2-10 gigabit plans would be like the Corvette in the Chevy dealership showroom, you need one to draw customers, who look at it and then buy a Malibu or Silverado. Do you price 5 Gbps just $20/mo more than 1 Gbps knowing the customer won’t use the extra bandwidth? But then do you incur a bunch of extra hardware costs, and do you not worry about it because it’s one time not recurring cost? And what about mesh extenders, because I assume the multigig people often have large homes, and the magic of WiFi7 won’t necessarily work 5 rooms and 2 floors away. And I believe the FCC requires that you let the customer use their own router, but does the customer realize how difficult it will be to actually get those 5 Gbps speedtests they crave while using the WiFi router they chose and bought from Amazon or Best Buy? From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2025 7:40 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question Are you using the u6x? I've had an unfair amount of issues with them when upgrading. Handful of DOAs. As long as I don't touch them (upgrade EXOS or AXOS), they stay running. On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 5:52 PM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: We are as small as they come and have been 100% Calix from the beginning. From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 15, 2025 12:50 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I know myself and others are pretty small - at least I would think we are. On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 12:02 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: I'd imagine anyone building smaller systems would be in a similar boat. -- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2025 10:53:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question That one :P On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 11:26 AM Mike Hammett < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Which half? I know someone else has complained about the Adtran purchase process. Every time you go to your distributor, they have to get a fresh quote from Adtran about what *YOUR* price is for the qty of SKU you want. -- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2025 8:44:37 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I feel like Mike is the only one with that complaint. On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 8:47 AM Mike Hammett < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: The Adtran purchase process is dreadful. Their training isn't as easy to come across. -- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason McKemie" < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2025 6:32:38 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I have some Calix active gear in the field, and I was using some Gigaspire routers. I've since switched to Ubiquiti GPON and it has been very solid since I started using it, which was several years ago. Adtran supposedly has a good product line-up and I'm told it is more reasonable than Calix, although I was never able to get pricing. The Calix stuff works well, but is best when you're spending OPM. On Sun, Dec 14, 2025, 11:40 AM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Good info all of you. I started thinking about this when I saw a Reddit post by an ISP customer who went to the Calix website and said it was “creepy as hell”. But the post was 6 years ago, and you have to take stuff people post on the Internet with a grain of salt. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/gd46zy/my_isp_will_require_the_calix_gigacenter_in_my/ I do remember talking to Calix at a WISPAmerica show, I think the last one I went to was St. Louis in 2015 so it must have been at least 10 years ago. The guy was very helpful and I think even lived near me, but after following up decided my company wasn’t nearly big enough to use them. Had to create an account, send people to training, buy direct not through distribution, just to kick the tires and do a lab eval of the WiFi performance. My impression was they were for ISPs that would buy equipment by the truckload, and also they were kind of a no sex before marriage company, not even a kiss. Take the plunge and commit. But that was 10 years ago. Another thing someone else has mentioned to me is ISP customers look at their router and assume their ISP is named something like GigaSpire BLAST, and that’s who to call for support. Reminds me of the old days when lots of people said their Internet provider was named Linksys. I’m sure many of us had prospective customers say Internet is free, they use that free provider Linksys, and question why we wanted to charge them. From: AF < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Chuck Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2025 8:17 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question I have built 3 different companies using Calix and have had no problems like you describe below. Xgs in an E7 shelf is pretty high density. And you dont have to pay monthly if you dont want their managed router solution. Never had a problem getting equipment. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2025, at 5:55 AM, Mark Radabaugh < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Calix lost me when I needed higher density hardware and all they ever wanted to talk about was how they were a cloud service company and look at all our shiny toys you can pay us monthly for. Yeah - what about actually hooking up customers? Oh, if you give us a two year forecast of what you want to buy we will hook you up - just don’t count on them actually having the equipment when you need it. Mark On Dec 13, 2025, at 7:27 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Ken, We use them. First of all their HW just works and works well. They may seem to be expensive on the MRC, but they bring a bunch of other services to the table. They will help with marketing, network engineering, etc. The support is VERY responsive and the amount of data collected in the service cloud is unbelievable. This is all they do, managed routers and fiber distribution. They have to be top notch to survive. They fit into our business model, but each business if different. I would say give them a chance to give you a proposal. See what they bring to the table. Maybe it is a fit, maybe not. -- Best regards, Mark mailto: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com> ------ Saturday, December 13, 2025, 1:51:56 PM, you wrote: I assume some of the folks on this list who are doing fiber use Calix ONTs and routers? If I go to the Calix website, maybe as a provider thinking of using them as a vendor, I am totally confused. It is not clear what products they sell or how I would use them. It all seems to be glossy marketing stuff about their agentic AI cloud and market insights. I don’t see a single picture of a piece of hardware. Is this how a lot of ISPs are making money despite charging low prices? Do they have an “agentic workforce” monitoring how their customers use the Internet, cross referencing it to demographics, and mining that data for ads, upselling, etc.? It seems they have special cloud features for MDU managers as well. It seems a lot of cable companies use Amazon’s eero, I wonder if service provider eero is like Calix, or if it’s just the retail eero with a few remote management features added. -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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