If he switched to cable even with their managed router, he would be told they can't support it On Oct 22, 2015 12:11 PM, "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm not sure if this matters in Ken's locale, but for us a consideration > is "would this work if he switched to cable?". If I can't be sure, then I > might have to make it my problem just because. > > > On 10/22/2015 12:57 PM, Chris Wright wrote: > > The problem of course is that all problems are Internet problems. Until > proven otherwise. Everything from the server to the eyeball is our > problem, at least until we can point the finger elsewhere. > > > > And in this case, since I am responsible for the Mikrotik, I want to make > sure that a bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes isn’t part of the problem, > when clients can roam between bridge ports. > > > > That’s a good customer service-centric attitude. But don’t forget the > bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes works perfectly so long as the customer > doesn’t screw it up with their four access points 25’ apart. You’re not > fixing your problem now, you’re dancing around their mess. > > > > Chris Wright > > Network Administrator > > Velociter Wireless > > 209-838-1221 x115 > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On > Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:01 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports > > > > My takeway from this post is tell the customer to only join one network > with each device, add more at their own peril. > > > > Thinking you can dictate to customers what they buy at Best Buy and > install in their house is unrealistic. Unless you want to be the Seinfeld > Soup Nazi. > > > > In this case, we followed our standard policy which is we only support > routers you lease from us, which will be a managed Mikrotik. In this case > the customer wanted 2 wireless access points in the house despite our > advice that it was overkill, and wanted to own those not lease from us. So > they bought from the store and were informed the demarc is the Mikrotik. > > > > The problem of course is that all problems are Internet problems. Until > proven otherwise. Everything from the server to the eyeball is our > problem, at least until we can point the finger elsewhere. > > > > And in this case, since I am responsible for the Mikrotik, I want to make > sure that a bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes isn’t part of the problem, > when clients can roam between bridge ports. > > > > The last thing I want to do is install a Unifi system for this customer, > then I would be complicit in his nightmare network and obliged to make it > work. > > > > > > > > *From:* Eric Kuhnke <[email protected]> > > *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:56 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports > > > > I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily take responsibility for > managing netgear crap... If you're going to have a residential customer > you can take two approaches: > > 1) "Here is the demarc. Plug you 100BaseTX or 1000BaseT thing in here and > you will get a DHCP address. Your router and your home LAN is entirely your > responsibility" > > or > > 2) Full managed network where you control the SOHO router. > > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:22 AM, Jason Pond <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Ken, > > > > If you are going to manage the network then manage the whole network. As > Steve said you do need to be using the right product. The problem is > between the netgear devices and the Customer WiFi devices. Having them > have ALL 4 SSID's in their device and it being able to see them all at the > same time is causing the problem. We see this frequently from netgear dual > band routers when the client connects to both 2G ang 5G networks. > > > > Unifi is one of the better solution that is affordable on the market > today. I use it in my house (which does require 2 ap's for coverage) and > it works great. I can stream music or watch video through the whole house > and not miss a beat when my device switches AP's and it is all the same > SSID so less confusion on the customer side of things. > > > > This problem is getting worse and worse with dual band routers and I see > it a lot with Netgear products. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jason Pond > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > What we have here is a failure to communicate? I’m not understanding > Josh’s suggestion, you mean do 4 SSIDs? > > > > Currently WAP1 has SSIDs Office and Office-5G. WAP2 has SSIDs TVRoom and > TVRoom-5G. So there are already 4 SSIDs. > > > > But each WAP is fed from an Ethernet port on the Mikrotik. And when a > wireless client moves between WAPs, it is moving between Mikrotik ports. I > believe the 5 minute ageing time on the Mikrotik bridge means that MAC > address persists on the original port for 5 minutes after it has appeared > on another port. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but that’s what appears to be > happening. The Bridge table shows the MAC address only on one port, but > the traffic makes me believe it is actually being flooded to both ports. > This doesn’t really seem right to me. On a switch, I would expect a MAC > address to move pretty quickly to the new port, or if it isn’t in the table > at all, to be flooded to all ports. > > > > And yes I don’t think the customer needs 2 WAPs to cover his house, but > the customer is always right. And the Mikrotik is leased/managed, the > Netgears he owns. But I get sucked into it because ... well, do I really > have to explain? > > > > > > *From:* Paul McCall <[email protected]> > > *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2015 8:37 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports > > > > +1 on Josh’s suggestions > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:27 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports > > > > Nope, you already have my suggestion. > > Can you try your idea of a 10s timeout? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Oct 22, 2015 12:28 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> wrote: > > There are 4 SSIDs. But customer has each device “join” each SSID. I > expected the devices to pick one SSID and stay with it down to 1 bar, but > they seem very fickle. > > > > Or are you saying make all the SSIDs the same? I don’t think it matters, > there are 4 wireless networks, even if they are all named the same. > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:03 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports > > > > Why not do 4 SSIDs? Add the profiles once and then done. > > I think your issue is probably the APs, not the bridge/switch part but it > doesn't really help. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Oct 21, 2015 11:59 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have a customer who insisted he needed 2 dual band wireless APs 25 feet > apart in his ranch house. So we have a managed non-WiFi Mikrotik RB2011 in > his basement, feeding two Netgear routers in wireless AP mode. I have the > LAN ports bridged rather than using the switch chips, since there's plenty > of CPU power and it gives more visibility into the traffic. > > So counting 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, the customer has 4 SSIDs and I think his > devices like iPads are jumping back and forth between networks. And I > think bad things are happening because the bridging table can't keep track > of which port the clients are on. I see weird things like the same amount > of traffic going out the ports to both wireless APs. I never see a MAC > address on both bridge ports, but it is acting like the Mikrotik is > flooding traffic to both ports. > > Should I be tweaking parameters like reducing the ageing time below the > default 5 minutes? Should I be using the switch chips and not bridging? > > Is this a typical problem when devices can choose between multiple APs > close together on the same bridged LAN? > > > > > > >
