Think he just finished writing a book!

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
[email protected]

> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I’ve only ever run into one bug with Cisco.  It was fairly minor, but I 
> opened a TAC case.  It was resolved in the next release, and I got an email 
> from them to tell me it had been resolved.
>  
> The big guys also tend to have 2 release tracks, like Cisco has the M and T 
> tracks.  The term “latest stable release” actually means something.  You 
> might need the latest T track release for some bleeding edge feature or 
> hardware, otherwise you are unlikely to run into bugs, and if you do, the bug 
> is probably documented.
>  
> They also are unlikely to tell you (like Mikrotik) that you need to upgrade 
> to the latest FW to get any support.  Of course the difference is paid vs. 
> free + community support, I don’t really fault Mikrotik for this.  But given 
> how often Mikrotik releases new FW with major new bugs, asking you to upgrade 
> first is like telling you to jump from the frying pan into the fire.  It 
> doesn’t resolve your original bug, but now you have several major new ones, 
> and you hope that you can downgrade successfully.
>  
> It’s kind of like the ongoing debate about RedHat which is stodgy enterprise 
> software vs other Linux distributions where you don’t have to wait years for 
> the latest features but also have to accept some risks and rely on the 
> community for support.
>  
>  
> From: Mike Hammett
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 8:12 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> I never said Mikrotik was at the total performance scale of the others. I'm 
> saying that there are major bugs or feature modifications on multiple 
> platforms by the big guys that go ignored, just like we have.
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Stewart" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 7:51:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
> 
> Hmmm.. disagree on that one.  I have been part of those conversations for 
> years  (including at NANOG amongst other places) and everyone has opinions of 
> course….
>  
> Microtik doesn’t make anything remotely even close to the scale of what a 
> typical “international operator” uses in their core network – it’s not the 
> market use they were designed for.  So, of course there’s always going to be 
> someone sitting at a table complaining about the support costs of Cisco, 
> Juniper etc and all the issues they have….  But that’s not a good comparison 
> to bring Microtik into the conversation.
>  
> In my $$job, we typically run Cisco Nexus 7k/5k/2k for switches and Juniper 
> MX2010/MX480/MX240 for routing.  Between those two specific vendors I can 
> tell you that we only have a handful of tickets open for anything of serious 
> nature.  Those tickets are escalated to their engineering groups who 
> replicate the problems, work on fixes, test the fixes, and deploy them in 
> upcoming release.    Now I’m not suggesting these companies are perfect … far 
> from it … but they have the resources and capabilities to work with us to 
> resolve the problems – some of these issues are very “corner case” problems 
> that we sometimes joke about “why is it always us that finds these issues?”.  
>  The support is very expensive sure, but that’s the cost of doing business, 
> and for me I want that support backing for the business.
>  
> Paul
>  
>  
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 8:37 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> The #1 thing I learned at NANOG was that the big vendors are just as full of 
> shit as the little vendors. Cisco, Juniper, AlcaLu, etc. are all just as 
> likely to ignore problems and create bugs as Mikrotik, Ubiquiti, etc.
> 
> When sitting at a table at about 1 AM one night with a head engineer with one 
> international operator and one national operator I said something to the 
> effect of, "I've just largely been listening to you guys comparing notes on 
> different products and issues you've had. I use Mikrotik routers in my 
> network and people often say they are junk and that Cisco, Juniper, etc. are 
> the way to go. Those vendors are exactly who you guys use and yet here you 
> are with the same type of complaints as we have with our vendors." The one at 
> the international vendor chimed in, "and we pay 10x more for that right."
> 
> Don't lose sight of that.
> 
> For example, Cisco is known for having Ethernet chipset incompatibility 
> issues....  which is exactly what this sub-topic has been about.
> 
> 
> To think otherwise is simply blind arrogance.
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
> 
> From: "Eric Kuhnke" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:49:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
> 
> This is sort of an illustration of why I am still very wary of Mikrotik for 
> routers. 
> 
> There's a myriad of Cisco routers available with 12 to 20 SFP-based GbE  
> interfacess (used/refurb) that are just as capable, if somewhat bigger and 
> hotter, that run very stable versions of IOS. It's totally unacceptable for 
> Cisco to break basic functionality for $HUGE_ISP and 
> $HUGE_ENTERPRISE_CUSTOMER , which are usually using the same IOS trains I use 
> for service provider functions.
> 
> Mikrotik OS software support is pretty much "hey go over to this forum and 
> hope somebody answers your question", if something is broken you are just 
> supposed to wait for a new version release in a month or two. If something is 
> fundamentally broken in a version of IOS used by a mature (6+ year old) Cisco 
> platform it's almost certain that somebody much bigger and more important 
> than yourself has already run into the issue, escalated it with Cisco, and a 
> new build fixing the bug is available.
>  
> If the space and power are available I would much rather have a 6503E with 
> dual supervisor than a CCR....
>  
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 7:34 PM, Rory Conaway <[email protected]> wrote:
> This just gets even better.  Worked 24 hours, then breaks again.  Up to Level 
> 4 tech support.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:56 AM
> 
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> We are taking it to the Mikrotik forum.  This makes no sense since we have 12 
> of the already running with no issues.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Glen Waldrop
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:54 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> I’m not terribly happy with ROS since 6.29.
>  
> Maybe it’s just still not 100% yet.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Rory Conaway
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> Replaced the Mikrotik routers with an Airrouter, it works.  Replaced with an 
> Edgerouter, still works.  This goes under the category of WTF.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 9:13 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> We tried 3 Mikrotik routers, 2 cable modems, and two radios from two 
> different manufacturers.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Glen Waldrop
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 8:52 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> MTU?
> 
> Last time I had that problem was an inconsistent Ethernet connection. It 
> wasn’t showing errors, but UDP was dropping packets. TCP retransmitted.
> 
> UDP was screwy, but TCP was downloading at the limit of the wireless feed.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Rory Conaway
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 9:47 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> Nailed the problem down to the Mikrotik router having a problem with DNS 
> caching whether it’s Cox or Google.  Not sure where to go from there since 
> the other 12 don’t have a problem.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 4:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> We had raons bit no dangling cables.  Level 3 says no errors to the modem and 
> we had a tech out already.  We are changing the 2011 to a 450 just to confirm 
> before we eacalate further.
>  
>  
>  
> Rory Conaway
> Triad Wireless
>  
> Typed on my phone with one finger so please excuse typos and abbreviations.
>  
>  
> -------- Original message --------
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm <[email protected]>
> Date: 1/11/2016 10:38 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> If it just started and youre in an area hit by storms, some of the neighbors, 
> mostly the empty houses with no tenants at this point, cable was busted down 
> by tree limbs and is dangling terminated byt the mud now
>  
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Glen Waldrop <[email protected]> wrote:
> Likely an RF issue on the cable side.
> 
> I see this sort of thing with the company I consult for. They’ll have me 
> going through the router, trying to shut down the “virus” or peer to peer 
> when it is thousands and thousands of retransmits and broken packets.
>  
> Just like our wireless it can have good quality until loaded, then watch the 
> quality drop to nearly nothing and loose connection.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Rory Conaway
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 8:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> The Netgear router has nothing to do with it, I was just using their website 
> as an example of downloading a file.  It’s computer, 2011, cable modem, the 
> world.  I just can’t download anything from any sites.  What’s weird is they 
> just drop.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 5:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> You mention Netgear, is this a Netgear router?  They used to have a problem 
> with downloads stalling, but that was quite a few years ago.  The fix was to 
> disable SPI Firewall.
>  
>  
> From: Rory Conaway
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 6:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download
>  
> We have a cable circuit that can do everything except download.  There is a 
> Mikrotik router between the computer and the cable modem.  Haven’t tested 
> taking the router out yet but we have tried 2 routers, same results.  
> Basically, downloads either don’t start or start and then just crash.       
> Game machines can’t update, even downloading a 20MB file from netgear fails.  
> Everything else seems to work.  Any ideas would be helpful.
>  
> Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
> 4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
> 602-426-0542
> [email protected]
> www.triadwireless.net
>  
> “Life is full of unfair calls, missed plays, and bad catches.  But true 
> baseball players keep on playing”  - Lessons from Baseball
>  
> 
> 
>  
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>  
>  
>  

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