Yeah - I was also wondering the same thing. On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Paul Stewart <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sounds like you did your homework with products so far … good stuff! > > I guess one question though is why are you looking for flow data from all > 26 routers in the path? i’m wondering why you wouldn’t just do net flow at > the edge of your network …. but then again, that depends I suppose on what > you are looking to accomplish… > > thanks, > Paul > > On Nov 27, 2016, at 11:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for the heads up on that. The sales guy ended up being real cool, > We had three issues that became deal breakers, the fast increase in port > counts, the remote probes, and the inability to differentiate the same > netflow coming from multiple routers in the path. He agreed that we should > part ways but wanted to do a due diligence with an engineer to ensure that > the info he provided along with our experience with the demo was fully > accurate. > We got together on a teleconference, They do have an additional component > that would do the remote probing for 15k, but still not a lightweight > poller lime snmpc. We have 26 mikrotiks that would need monitored in our > critical paths, that would be 52 ports just to get the minimum monitoring > for backhaul ports, another 26-52 if we wanted metrics from the backhauls > themselves. This doesnt include our provider ports or any other items we > would want. We would have blown through the 100 port license right off the > bat to get a just enough monitoring scenario. The netflow differentiate is > a limitation of netflow, the engineer said he isnt aware of any system that > does that, but he did confess hes not familiar with alot of them. Overall > the sales experience was nice with them > The cool thing is though, the cash had been appropriated for a solution so > we started a Castlerock SNMPc trial to see about renewing our version 7 > support contract to get on the newest version and its less to do that than > the original quote on solar winds for a new perpetual license. (retail on a > non renewal license MSRP at 12k, luckily we someohow got that back in the > day) > Pretty excited, I already verified a ghetto mechanism to visualize OSPF > default paths on the overview map. Granular tiered alerting, long term > monitoring, remote off network poller, trap response (we havent had a trap > reciever live for years), read/write snmp response thats automated > (WOOT!!). I just wish I was still a teenager so I could say im stoked. > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Paul Stewart <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Sorry to burst your hopes there…. :) i wanted to make sure you knew that >> instead of what a sales guy might be pushing… >> >> if there’s one thing that Solarwinds is very very good at .. it’s pesky >> sales people who won’t leave you alone … >> >> On Nov 11, 2016, at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> you just broke my heart >> >> youre completely right, the remote agent is not a polling probe as I >> assumed, I just added one. That was the primary feature I was going to >> promote to cost justify since it had revenue potential. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Paul Stewart <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I’m not aware of it having probe capabilities - just had that >>> conversation with them a month ago. >>> >>> Their only solution is to stand up additional servers in remote >>> locations and have them linked back to the SQL backend …. less than elegant >>> and a licensing nightmare >>> >>> >>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 11:58 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> solar winds has remote probes. I havent done one yet, im waiting on the >>> sales guy to get back on the restrictions that imposes as far as selling >>> monitoring as a service to contract customers, or even other WISPs. >>> >>> Im hoping it functions in a similar fashion to the remote pollers in >>> SNMPc, just a light piece of software you drop on a machine with access to >>> a network that calls home. Unless you have a backup path for the data to >>> get to the server, real time would croak out for that network. I enjoyed it >>> because I could put a poller on my laptop and drop into a network and scan >>> it. I wanted my laptop to get stolen so I could use it as lojac to locate >>> it. >>> >>> There was an option to do a distributed system with snmpc, but there >>> would have been no benefit to a remote poller on the same network as the >>> distributed server. >>> >>> We had it set up on a school distrct to monitor their wireless >>> infrastructure between campuses, it was sweet because we had no external >>> access, but therough the remoute poller tunnel (it calls home) we had full >>> snmp read/write access on their network in a secure manner >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Xymon FTW! >>>> >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> NetXMS *shudder* >>>>> >>>>> I can just see you sitting there in an argyle sweater sipping tea out >>>>> of your Windows95 mug - watching your NetXMS updates in the client. >>>>> >>>>> ;) >>>>> >>>>> (To be fair, Xymon is WAY older than NetXMS, but it was here decades >>>>> before I was LOL) >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NetXMS does that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]> >>>>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 11, 2016 9:35:40 AM >>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>>> >>>>>> We are still using Xymon in parts of our network simply because it >>>>>> supports proxy collectors. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Paul Stewart <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> So that’s one area where Solarwinds falls down in my opinion … there >>>>>>> may be workarounds but it’s not ideal for that kind of situation … >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some NMS solutions have that capability and I hope Solarwinds will >>>>>>> develop it at some point as could really use it for some areas of the >>>>>>> network as well >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How well does it accommodate remote probes? My network isn’t a nice >>>>>>> central NOC with backhaul links radiating out, and I need the ability to >>>>>>> monitor things like packet loss and latency from multiple points in the >>>>>>> network. Also to always have monitoring even if a part of the network >>>>>>> gets >>>>>>> isolated by multiple failures like during a storm or DDoS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>>>>>> Behalf Of *Josh Baird >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2016 8:48 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We use both the Solarwinds suite and Zenoss Enterprise at $realjob >>>>>>> (and a few others). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $30k is cheap for large shops/enterprises. Enterprise monitoring >>>>>>> can get super expensive. Zenoss Enterprise is usually $100+ per device >>>>>>> per >>>>>>> year. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Paul Stewart <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LOL … ah yes, Remedy etc …. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’m one of the few that actually really likes Remedy …. but with the >>>>>>> caveat that I’m not paying for the system and the team of people to >>>>>>> actually run it ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, monitoring can get quite expensive. We have some Solarwinds at >>>>>>> $day_job along with HP OpenView, but we're about to roll out a full BMC >>>>>>> solution. (TrueSight, etc). We also run Remedy, so you know we are >>>>>>> gluttons >>>>>>> for punishment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will end up paying more for monitoring this year alone than the >>>>>>> average house price in California. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016 8:32 AM, "Paul Stewart" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well the answer to that question is “it depends” …. I’m a big >>>>>>> believer that business is critical on good monitoring (along with good >>>>>>> staff, proper procedures etc etc). Putting a dollar value on Solarwinds >>>>>>> specific to your business and it’s needs is difficult as everyone is >>>>>>> different …. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For some people, buying the Windows licenses and a MS SQL backend is >>>>>>> a deal breaker right off the bat … for others it’s the actual >>>>>>> application >>>>>>> costs itself >>>>>>> >>>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL100 (up to 100 elements) - >>>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>>> $2895 >>>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL250 (up to 250 elements) - >>>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>>> $6495 >>>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL500 (up to 500 elements) - >>>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>>> $9995 >>>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL2000 (up to 2000 elements) >>>>>>> - License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>>> $18295 >>>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SLX (unlimited >>>>>>> elements-Standard Polling Throughput) - License with 1st-year >>>>>>> Maintenance >>>>>>> $30395 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List price and they always have some “special” on the go .. but that >>>>>>> will typically be 10-30% levels on average. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One might argue that alternative system X, perhaps open source, is >>>>>>> “free”. It has no licensing …. but then you have the time factor and >>>>>>> possibly support elements of who to call for help should you need it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’m a big fan of open source and Linux solutions ….. not a fan of >>>>>>> Windows. But in general, there’s different tools for different needs >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> different businesses. For our business needs, Solarwinds was a great >>>>>>> fit >>>>>>> and we found it friendly on budget - we have SLX version of Network >>>>>>> Performance Monitor, additional SLX pollers, SQL Enterprise cluster >>>>>>> backend, APM SLX monitors and soon will be deploying NCM SLX for >>>>>>> configuration stuff. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You say price isn’t that bad. Whenever I’ve looked at anything from >>>>>>> Solarwinds, the price has been way out of reach – serious, serious >>>>>>> sticker >>>>>>> shock. Did I evaluate incorrectly, or am I just cheap? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>>>>>> Behalf Of *Paul Stewart >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2016 4:59 AM >>>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Solarwinds is interesting software… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’m now on week #4 of “renovating” our Solarwinds deployment…. >>>>>>> updating, cleaning stuff up, better automation, better alerting etc etc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i’m a Linux guy … really like open source. But for network >>>>>>> monitoring I have yet to find an NMS (even commercial) that I actually >>>>>>> liked in Linux. it seems strange just saying that as there’s a lot of >>>>>>> great TOOLS in Linux but for a full blown NMS that’s where I have my >>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right now, we run multiple tools on Linux such as Nagios, Cacti, >>>>>>> Observium, Collectd, Munin to name a few …. and then we have Solarwinds. >>>>>>> All of these systems are disconnected from one another, so a conscious >>>>>>> effort has been underway to “standardize’ everything under one platform >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> and this is Solarwinds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been a long time user of their platform - and generally like >>>>>>> it quite a bit. I wish it didn’t run under Windows and I wish the >>>>>>> performance of the system was better …. also wish they would integrate >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> of their other products into the “common platform” that they have >>>>>>> acquired. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, the price isn’t that bad (that will vary with company size, >>>>>>> importance of use etc) and it’s a good system that doesn’t take a huge >>>>>>> amount of time to manage/maintain once it’s operational. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For their net flow product in particular, depending on number of >>>>>>> interfaces and flows, make sure you size the database accordingly…. it’s >>>>>>> very hungry for resources in that regard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are running a demo of this. It started out as an eyeballing a >>>>>>> netflow collector and analyzer I dont have to poke all the time. we >>>>>>> started >>>>>>> scrutinizer, liked it, but found out the price scale killed any chance >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> getting it approved >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the pricing for this wasnt as bad, and the sales guy has some >>>>>>> incentives, but the whole package was alot, and I didnt intend on even >>>>>>> looking at the monitoring side because port based pricing models can >>>>>>> quickly get out of hand >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as part of the initial configuration i seeded the auto discovery >>>>>>> just to get through the setup. in the mean time, some other stuff came >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> and i i got busy, this was friday or thursday >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we have been having some intermittent issues with periodic slowness >>>>>>> to some customers, the symptoms were that of a bottleneck. We had to >>>>>>> throw >>>>>>> some static routes into our OSPF network defeating dynamics to force >>>>>>> traffic out one connection, thinking maybe it was a saturated lower >>>>>>> quality >>>>>>> upstream, no noteable relief. so we thought maybe we were saturating a >>>>>>> backhaul that was getting to high percentage utilization, we added a >>>>>>> redundancy and further split traffic up with static routes. no joy. it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> at a point where the next step was just going site by site auditing >>>>>>> every >>>>>>> device...fun since the issue was intermittent, that means multiple times >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the sales guy wanted me to commit to getting this thing up and >>>>>>> running by this weekend so next week we could list out what we want >>>>>>> from it >>>>>>> and how we achieve it, or if we cant do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so yesterday i go to turn on the flows and send them to the server, >>>>>>> the weird slowness is going on so its irritating me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i decided to clear out the alarms from installation and low and >>>>>>> behold theres an alarm on a named interface of one of the routers i >>>>>>> tossed >>>>>>> in on discovery saying 90 percent or more usage. this is a 366mb >>>>>>> licensed >>>>>>> link on a gigabit interface, so im quite curious. I drill into the >>>>>>> detail, >>>>>>> the port is running at 100mb and saturating, i flap the port and its >>>>>>> back >>>>>>> to gigabit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we only monitor with powercode currently, we have snmpc but its old >>>>>>> and shut off. Ive toyed with a whole bunch of other opensource and low >>>>>>> cost >>>>>>> systems but never had enough time to actually drill down and learn >>>>>>> them, i >>>>>>> did just get a book on nagios because it was cheap on ebay. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> powercode is worthless for any amount of invasive alerting or >>>>>>> monitoring at any detail, if i want ports identified other than by port >>>>>>> number it requires an individual probe. pita. its good for long term >>>>>>> static >>>>>>> monitoring and some real time tools, but its not an NMS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the point here, is the solarwinds tool is sweet, and for the 100 >>>>>>> interface package with a promotion the cost is doable if one takes into >>>>>>> account the time investment of the other opensource platforms, >>>>>>> installation, learning curve, back end configuration, and plethora of >>>>>>> gotchas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this particular issue could have cost us a good deal in man hours >>>>>>> tracing it, refunds to customers for service impacts, and potential long >>>>>>> term loss of customers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> now, once i knew where the issue was, i knew exactly where to look >>>>>>> in our existing data to verify it. 20/20 hindsight doesnt mean those are >>>>>>> the toolsets that would have been picked out first. if this tool had >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> in production use, we would have known the first time the link >>>>>>> negotiated >>>>>>> down, and addressed it before there was any noteable service impact. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are very frugal in your interface selection, this can be a >>>>>>> good choice for an nms (i havent played with the atlas map other than >>>>>>> dropping some stuff on it) if you dont want to dick around with a diy >>>>>>> solution. its cheaper if you dont add the netflow analyzer package. Its >>>>>>> solar winds so its pretty, and user friendly. the flow analyzer does >>>>>>> route >>>>>>> monitoring too, i havent looked at that, but the salesguy says he >>>>>>> thinks we >>>>>>> can visualize our ospf with the network atlas component, if thats the >>>>>>> case >>>>>>> the boss will likely drop cash. licensing is perpetual with 20% yearly >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> maintenance if you want it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.solarwinds.com/network-bandwidth-analyzer-pack >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your >>>>>>> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >> >> >> > > > -- > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > > >
