I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation,
whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a
reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives
the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear
or ridiculous egotisms.
(Albert Einstein, Obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)
From: Jeremy <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
I just think it is funny that you are speaking about religion as if it can be
confirmed with the scientific method.
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
I told him that a shrewd person hedges their bets. I sure do not want to step
into a possible new existence with a God pissed off at me. Costs nothing and
the potential upside is huge. Better than buying a lottery ticket. From:
Jaime Solorza Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 9:36 AMTo: Animal Farm Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD shoot him this one...."I know there ain't no
heaven. but I PRAY there is no HELL." Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems
Architect915-861-1390 On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Chuck McCown
<[email protected]> wrote:
This professor and I have been going for 24 hours now. He quickly dropped
to taunts like “have your dead son do something” or pray to god to cure all
amputees. Odd crap like that. He guy is 62 year old and throws in a “you
lose” and “reality check” with every posting. I am trying to asking for
definitions of things he says like reality, truth, integrity etc. He does not
want to do anything but say how dishonest I am and how repugnant, dishonest,
and disgusting all religions are and to make unkind comments about my “dead
son”. It is kinda fun playing defense on an increasingly vitriolic thread.
I really got him wound up. Must be sad in his reality. From: Gino A.
Villarini Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 6:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD I have always had this notion that what we
understand as our universe a quark of someone else universe… From: Af
<[email protected]> on behalf of "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 7:01 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
I had an astronomy professor in college and we got to the part where we
talked about the theories on how the universe was created. Obviously the one
that has the most "compelling concrete evidence" is the big bang theory. So we
are told that the universe started with hydrogen and helium..... then
something happened..... (we still have no clue what happened in that first
billionth of a second) and then everything was created. The bible tells us in
the beginning there was God and darkness.... then something happened.... and
then there was light. So my professor pointed out that both science and
religion both start with a premise that something existed out of nothing and
that then something else happened and here we are. So they could both be right
and they could both be wrong. Science doesn't tell us where the helium and
hydrogen came from and religion doesn't tell us where God came from. Sort of
link someone saying, "How do you become a millionaire?" And you respond, "Well,
first get 1 million dollars."
| Gino A. Villarini |
| President |
| Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 |
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
No, debate and the scientific method is OK. From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT
Pissed off PhD So we've cut out politics, but religion is ok?
- Josh On Apr 28, 2017 1:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
This guy wrote an op ed piece in the Salt Lake Tribune today criticizing a
doctor for claiming that divine intervention saved his wife's life, and the
doctor had the temerity to make this announcement on earth day. So Mr. PhD
had to take him to task in the news paper.
I looked up the guys email address and sent him the note (at the bottom of
the thread). Not sure if I will get any further replies but I did have some
fun this morning...
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:35 PM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark
Subject: Re: Letter in the tribune
So odd and unexpected.
A truth seeker that resorts insulting someone that disagrees and then slams
the door?
Is that part of the scientific method?
Personally, I prefer my pet theories to be disproved so I can continue the
search.
(BTW, countless anecdotal beyond the veil stories that reveal previously
unknown information. But it seems your search for truth in that direction
is clearly halted. )
See you in 150 years mate!
-----Original Message----- From: Gregory Arthur Clark
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Letter in the tribune
Replies below.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:04 PM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Letter in the tribune
Hmmm, I note some emotion there.
Odd indeed that you are so worked up when if you parse what I wrote, I was
not conveying any information about my beliefs in anything. Nor was I
defending at all what Daniels said. I don't.
Odd that you seem to immediately judge me as a dishonest person.
---------------
GC: Curious that you object to my inferences while making so many of your
own. Your irrelevant ad-homs are telling and typical.
========
Just simply pointing out that it is difficult to prove that something does
not exist.
You seem to want to debate. I do know stats and null hypothesis analysis, I
am educated. I am an engineer.
----
GC: Some educated people still tout nonsense. Your opening
proving-a-negative trope explicitly wrt religion reflects ignorance,
trolling, or both. Lose-lose-lose.
==========
Just teasing a bit. You seem to want to reject even the possibility that
some form of us will exist in 150 years such that we can communicate with
each other.
----
GC: As Hitch says, that which can be asserted without evidence can be
dismissed without evidence. But it's worse than that. Psychics are frauds,
as are all who claim to relay or receive messages from beyond the veil.
There is compelling concrete evidence that, when put to the test,
consciousness does not exist without brain function.
• Clark, G.A. “Science doesn’t support life after death claims.” Guest
commentary. Standard-Examiner, October 22, 2014 (on-line); October 24
(print).
Those who return from beyond the veil never tell us anything they couldn’t
have said without going anywhere at all. There is no demonstrable awareness
after brain shutdown. That’s what this scientific study actually
shows--despite trumpeted claims otherwise by the popular press.
http://www.standard.net/Guest- Commentary/2014/10/26/Science-
doesn-t-support-life-after-dea th-claims.html
=============================
I don't reject that idea at all, I hope for it.
GC: Your inabilities are clearly stated and understood. But not respected.
==============
If it doesn't happen I will never know. But if it does, expect a visit!
Cheers,
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Arthur Clark
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Letter in the tribune
Thanks for your input, Chuck. My replies are interdigitated below.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:46 AM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: Letter in the tribune
Dr. Clark,
“Because when it comes to the real world, science works. Religion doesn’t.”
You can prove a negative? Just because you have not yet found the knobs
that control how religion works, does not mean they do not exist.
----
GC: From a pure epistemological standpoint, science and empirical evidence
and inductive logic can't "prove" anything, positive or negative, with 100%
certainty. So what? Science deals with probabilities. That's why scientific
journals indicate the probabilities associated with rejecting the null
hypothesis.
What science can do is to disconfirm hypotheses beyond a reasonable doubt.
Absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence -- if the evidence should
be there, but repeatedly and reproducibly is not. Science often *does*
reject negatives. So do we as people. We reject the hypothesis that saying
"abracadabra" cures all cancers, immediately. We reject the hypothesis that
Godzilla just devoured all of Salt Lake City. We can reject the God
hypothesis with much the same certainty as we reject the God hypothesis.
Stop making dishonest, special-pleading exceptions for God.
=============
I think you would agree that the placebo effect is a real thing. So in the
case where religion triggers the placebo effect religion arguably does work.
---
GC: Don't move the goal posts. Of course thinking and prayer and all sorts
of mental activities can affect *the person doing them*. But it's
self-evident and explicit that my op-ed refers to intercessory prayer
regarding the *external physical world.* Praying to God has the same effect
on the external physical world as praying to horse manure: None.
==========
Not trying to be a troll, I am serious. I think that there is some chance
that we do live in “the matrix” or perhaps our universe is contained in a
small charm dangling from the collar of a cat.
Will make you a wager, in 150 years if some of my ideas are correct, I will
look you up and you will owe me the equivalent of a cosmic cup of coffee.
Deal?
---
GC: I call your bluff. Why wait?
Pray, now, that God will heal all adult human amputees by re-growing their
missing limbs. It's in the power of an omnipotent God to do so.
And yet you know and I know and Professor Daniels knows and essentially
*every* sane adult knows that you will fail.
Stop making excuses for God. God "answers" prayers the same way that horse
manure "answers" prayers: Not at all.
Religion is ridiculous, repugnant, and deeply dishonest. Stop lying to
yourself. And to others.
========
Over and out,
Greg
============
Warm Regards,
Chuck McCown
