No, speaking about philosophy that probably cannot be confirmed with
our current knowledge.
Cosmologists have a proof with respect to locality that does open the
door to a God.
Kinda like the double slit vs the pilot wave, the more you know the
more you discover that you don’t know.
Margarine vs butter...
Just as I cannot prove the positive, yet, nobody can prove that God
does not exist or that what makes us who we are does not survive
death. You cannot prove a negative in complex cases.
Something caused Steve Jobs’ last words to be: “Oh Wow, Oh Wow, Oh Wow”.
*From:* Jeremy
*Sent:* Saturday, April 29, 2017 10:17 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
I just think it is funny that you are speaking about religion as if it
can be confirmed with the scientific method.
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
I told him that a shrewd person hedges their bets. I sure do not
want to step into a possible new existence with a God pissed off
at me. Costs nothing and the potential upside is huge. Better
than buying a lottery ticket.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Saturday, April 29, 2017 9:36 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
shoot him this one...."I know there ain't no heaven. but I PRAY
there is no HELL."
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 <tel:%28915%29%20861-1390>
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
This professor and I have been going for 24 hours now. He
quickly dropped to taunts like “have your dead son do
something” or pray to god to cure all amputees. Odd crap like
that.
He guy is 62 year old and throws in a “you lose” and “reality
check” with every posting. I am trying to asking for
definitions of things he says like reality, truth, integrity
etc. He does not want to do anything but say how dishonest I
am and how repugnant, dishonest, and disgusting all religions
are and to make unkind comments about my “dead son”.
It is kinda fun playing defense on an increasingly vitriolic
thread. I really got him wound up. Must be sad in his reality.
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Saturday, April 29, 2017 6:20 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
I have always had this notion that what we understand as our
universe a quark of someone else universe…
From: Af <[email protected]> on behalf of
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 7:01 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
I had an astronomy professor in college and we got to the part
where we talked about the
theories on how the universe was created. Obviously the one
that has the most "compelling
concrete evidence" is the big bang theory. So we are told that
the universe started with
hydrogen and helium..... then something happened..... (we
still have no clue what happened
in that first billionth of a second) and then everything was
created.
The bible tells us in the beginning there was God and
darkness.... then something
happened.... and then there was light.
So my professor pointed out that both science and religion
both start with a premise that
something existed out of nothing and that then something else
happened and here we are.
So they could both be right and they could both be wrong.
Science doesn't tell us where
the helium and hydrogen came from and religion doesn't tell us
where God came from.
Sort of link someone saying, "How do you become a
millionaire?" And you respond,
"Well, first get 1 million dollars."
*//*
*/Gino A. Villarini/*
President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
No, debate and the scientific method is OK.
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 12:51 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Pissed off PhD
So we've cut out politics, but religion is ok?
- Josh
On Apr 28, 2017 1:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
This guy wrote an op ed piece in the Salt Lake Tribune
today criticizing a
doctor for claiming that divine intervention saved his
wife's life, and the
doctor had the temerity to make this announcement on
earth day. So Mr. PhD
had to take him to task in the news paper.
I looked up the guys email address and sent him the
note (at the bottom of
the thread). Not sure if I will get any further
replies but I did have some
fun this morning...
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:35 PM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark
Subject: Re: Letter in the tribune
So odd and unexpected.
A truth seeker that resorts insulting someone that
disagrees and then slams
the door?
Is that part of the scientific method?
Personally, I prefer my pet theories to be disproved
so I can continue the
search.
(BTW, countless anecdotal beyond the veil stories that
reveal previously
unknown information. But it seems your search for
truth in that direction
is clearly halted. )
See you in 150 years mate!
-----Original Message----- From: Gregory Arthur Clark
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Letter in the tribune
Replies below.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:04 PM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Letter in the tribune
Hmmm, I note some emotion there.
Odd indeed that you are so worked up when if you parse
what I wrote, I was
not conveying any information about my beliefs in
anything. Nor was I
defending at all what Daniels said. I don't.
Odd that you seem to immediately judge me as a
dishonest person.
---------------
GC: Curious that you object to my inferences while
making so many of your
own. Your irrelevant ad-homs are telling and typical.
========
Just simply pointing out that it is difficult to prove
that something does
not exist.
You seem to want to debate. I do know stats and null
hypothesis analysis, I
am educated. I am an engineer.
----
GC: Some educated people still tout nonsense. Your opening
proving-a-negative trope explicitly wrt religion
reflects ignorance,
trolling, or both. Lose-lose-lose.
==========
Just teasing a bit. You seem to want to reject even
the possibility that
some form of us will exist in 150 years such that we
can communicate with
each other.
----
GC: As Hitch says, that which can be asserted without
evidence can be
dismissed without evidence. But it's worse than that.
Psychics are frauds,
as are all who claim to relay or receive messages from
beyond the veil.
There is compelling concrete evidence that, when put
to the test,
consciousness does not exist without brain function.
• Clark, G.A. “Science doesn’t support life after
death claims.” Guest
commentary. Standard-Examiner, October 22, 2014
(on-line); October 24
(print).
Those who return from beyond the veil never tell us
anything they couldn’t
have said without going anywhere at all. There is no
demonstrable awareness
after brain shutdown. That’s what this scientific
study actually
shows--despite trumpeted claims otherwise by the
popular press.
http://www.standard.net/Guest-Commentary/2014/10/26/Science-doesn-t-support-life-after-death-claims.html
<http://www.standard.net/Guest-Commentary/2014/10/26/Science-doesn-t-support-life-after-death-claims.html>
=============================
I don't reject that idea at all, I hope for it.
GC: Your inabilities are clearly stated and
understood. But not respected.
==============
If it doesn't happen I will never know. But if it
does, expect a visit!
Cheers,
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Arthur Clark
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Letter in the tribune
Thanks for your input, Chuck. My replies are
interdigitated below.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:46 AM
To: Gregory Arthur Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: Letter in the tribune
Dr. Clark,
“Because when it comes to the real world, science
works. Religion doesn’t.”
You can prove a negative? Just because you have not
yet found the knobs
that control how religion works, does not mean they do
not exist.
----
GC: From a pure epistemological standpoint, science
and empirical evidence
and inductive logic can't "prove" anything, positive
or negative, with 100%
certainty. So what? Science deals with probabilities.
That's why scientific
journals indicate the probabilities associated with
rejecting the null
hypothesis.
What science can do is to disconfirm hypotheses beyond
a reasonable doubt.
Absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence --
if the evidence should
be there, but repeatedly and reproducibly is not.
Science often *does*
reject negatives. So do we as people. We reject the
hypothesis that saying
"abracadabra" cures all cancers, immediately. We
reject the hypothesis that
Godzilla just devoured all of Salt Lake City. We can
reject the God
hypothesis with much the same certainty as we reject
the God hypothesis.
Stop making dishonest, special-pleading exceptions for
God.
=============
I think you would agree that the placebo effect is a
real thing. So in the
case where religion triggers the placebo effect
religion arguably does work.
---
GC: Don't move the goal posts. Of course thinking and
prayer and all sorts
of mental activities can affect *the person doing
them*. But it's
self-evident and explicit that my op-ed refers to
intercessory prayer
regarding the *external physical world.* Praying to
God has the same effect
on the external physical world as praying to horse
manure: None.
==========
Not trying to be a troll, I am serious. I think that
there is some chance
that we do live in “the matrix” or perhaps our
universe is contained in a
small charm dangling from the collar of a cat.
Will make you a wager, in 150 years if some of my
ideas are correct, I will
look you up and you will owe me the equivalent of a
cosmic cup of coffee.
Deal?
---
GC: I call your bluff. Why wait?
Pray, now, that God will heal all adult human amputees
by re-growing their
missing limbs. It's in the power of an omnipotent God
to do so.
And yet you know and I know and Professor Daniels
knows and essentially
*every* sane adult knows that you will fail.
Stop making excuses for God. God "answers" prayers
the same way that horse
manure "answers" prayers: Not at all.
Religion is ridiculous, repugnant, and deeply
dishonest. Stop lying to
yourself. And to others.
========
Over and out,
Greg
============
Warm Regards,
Chuck McCown
