Not running a vm so seems not applicable On Dec 26, 2017 12:39 PM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Have you checked Veeam yet? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <[email protected]> > *To: *"af" <[email protected]> > *Sent: *Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:38:29 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore > > Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync. > > As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated > etc.. So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some > backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup > machines. Which is what I started this thread about. > > Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf. With varying > definitions of identical. Usually the only change will be memory or disk > or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much. Definitely > not enough to prevent an image copy from working. > > > On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and >> then imaged from one to the next. Then just store the extra machines >> nearby. >> >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340> >> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343> >> 1100 Wayne St >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >> Suite 1337 >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >> Troy, OH 45373 >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >> >> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct >>> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's... I hope the >>> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for >>> eternity... >>> >>> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: >>> >>>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which >>>> works consistently on modern hardware. Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd >>>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the >>>> whole issue would be irrelevant. So I'm stuck with a chunk of older >>>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to >>>> set up automation with it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a >>>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We >>>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough >>>> to make them work eventually. >>>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program >>>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to >>>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I >>>> know you don't have the luxury. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild >>>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged >>>> instructions. >>>> >>>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this >>>> machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of >>>> hardware. One won't install on anything after Windows 7. The >>>> other one requires windows 8.1 or 10. Fortunately the driver >>>> which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the >>>> latter versions, it just won't install on them. I think it uses >>>> some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7. So >>>> a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, >>>> and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else >>>> can get installed. >>>> >>>> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and >>>> physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a >>>> specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to >>>> run. >>>> >>>> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" >>>> <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC? What if you >>>> had the files from the old one? >>>> >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> >>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy, >>>> +OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy, >>>> +OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy, >>>> +OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> >>>> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >>>> >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider >>>> it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines >>>> are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead >>>> 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a >>>> possibility. The OS on these machines need direct >>>> access to the hardware. Often, the drivers/software are >>>> doing horrible things under the surface to windows to >>>> make it work. Adding a VM layer just isn't practical >>>> in this case. National Instruments describes it best: >>>> >>>> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to >>>> communication challenges and the possibility of >>>> incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access >>>> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments >>>> are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI >>>> connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow >>>> access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given >>>> the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data >>>> transfer associated with USB pass-through may cause >>>> errors when communicating with DAQ devices." >>>> >>>> My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which >>>> is supported in some VM's still isn't enough to permit >>>> this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot like the >>>> USB-passthrough issue described above. >>>> >>>> In my experience, failures are usually going to be >>>> software or disk, not the underlying hardware. If the >>>> underlying hardware fails, I realize that I'm stuck >>>> unless I have identical hardware. Knowing this, I >>>> often actually have an identical motherboard and/or >>>> server setting as part of the spares. And by >>>> identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the >>>> same time, or from the same batch. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman >>>> <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Images for Windows between any two machines simply >>>> isn't dependable. DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. >>>> >>>> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're >>>> set. Put it in Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit >>>> change only) backup. >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> >>>> 11 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373&entry=gmail&source=g>00 >>>> Wayne St >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q= >>>> 1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q= >>>> 1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q= >>>> 1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> >>>> On Dec 21, 2017 11 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373&entry=gmail&source=g>:06 >>>> PM, "Forrest Christian (List >>>> Account)" <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Normally backups around here are file-based, >>>> I.E. I want to make sure I don't lose data. >>>> >>>> I have a couple of computers now which I really >>>> would hate to have to rebuild due to hardware >>>> failure. These are generally computers which >>>> run a machine, such as the automatic test system >>>> and the pick and place machine. These machines >>>> area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) >>>> mostly off the shelf hardware running various >>>> versions of windows. I'd like to take a full >>>> image, and have at least a reasonable chance of >>>> putting it back on similar hardware (probably >>>> same motherboard, maybe different storage >>>> medium) and it just work. >>>> >>>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton >>>> Ghost. But that's been discontinued (and I >>>> understand it was going downhill before that). >>>> So I'm looking for whatever the current modern >>>> version is. >>>> >>>> I know there's a few tools out there which do >>>> this (Macrium, Acronis, etc). But the reviews >>>> are all littered with failures. Unfortunately >>>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of >>>> clue and how much of this is broken software. >>>> >>>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with >>>> using these modern equivalents? Preferably >>>> something which runs on a range of Windows >>>> OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS. >>>> >>>> -- *Forrest Christian* >>>> /CEO//, PacketFlux >>>> Technologies, Inc./ >>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+%0D+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Road, Helena, MT 59602 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q= >>>> 3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> | >>>> http://www.packetflux.com >>>> <http://www.packetflux.com/> >>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> >>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> >>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, >>>> PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ >>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 35 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577%2BCountryside%2BRoad,%2BHelena,%2BMT%2B59602&entry=gmail&source=g>77 >>>> Countryside Road, >>>> Helena, MT 59602 >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q= >>>> 3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> | >>>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/> >>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> >>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> >>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >
