Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync. As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc.. So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines. Which is what I started this thread about.
Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf. With varying definitions of identical. Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much. Definitely not enough to prevent an image copy from working. On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> wrote: > What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and > then imaged from one to the next. Then just store the extra machines > nearby. > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340> > Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343> > 1100 Wayne St > <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> > Suite 1337 > <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> > Troy, OH 45373 > <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> > > On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct >> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's... I hope the >> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for >> eternity... >> >> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: >> >>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which >>> works consistently on modern hardware. Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd >>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the >>> whole issue would be irrelevant. So I'm stuck with a chunk of older >>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to >>> set up automation with it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a >>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We >>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough >>> to make them work eventually. >>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program >>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to >>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I >>> know you don't have the luxury. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild >>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged >>> instructions. >>> >>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this >>> machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of >>> hardware. One won't install on anything after Windows 7. The >>> other one requires windows 8.1 or 10. Fortunately the driver >>> which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the >>> latter versions, it just won't install on them. I think it uses >>> some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7. So >>> a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, >>> and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else >>> can get installed. >>> >>> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and >>> physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a >>> specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to >>> run. >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC? What if you >>> had the files from the old one? >>> >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+O >>> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Suite 1337 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+O >>> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+O >>> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >>> >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider >>> it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines >>> are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead >>> 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a >>> possibility. The OS on these machines need direct >>> access to the hardware. Often, the drivers/software are >>> doing horrible things under the surface to windows to >>> make it work. Adding a VM layer just isn't practical >>> in this case. National Instruments describes it best: >>> >>> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to >>> communication challenges and the possibility of >>> incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access >>> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments >>> are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI >>> connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow >>> access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given >>> the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data >>> transfer associated with USB pass-through may cause >>> errors when communicating with DAQ devices." >>> >>> My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which >>> is supported in some VM's still isn't enough to permit >>> this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot like the >>> USB-passthrough issue described above. >>> >>> In my experience, failures are usually going to be >>> software or disk, not the underlying hardware. If the >>> underlying hardware fails, I realize that I'm stuck >>> unless I have identical hardware. Knowing this, I >>> often actually have an identical motherboard and/or >>> server setting as part of the spares. And by >>> identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the >>> same time, or from the same batch. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Images for Windows between any two machines simply >>> isn't dependable. DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. >>> >>> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're >>> set. Put it in Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit >>> change only) backup. >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> >>> 11 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373&entry=gmail&source=g>00 >>> Wayne St >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=11 >>> 00+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Suite 1337 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=11 >>> 00+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=11 >>> 00+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> On Dec 21, 2017 11 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2BSuite%2B1337%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373&entry=gmail&source=g>:06 >>> PM, "Forrest Christian (List >>> Account)" <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Normally backups around here are file-based, >>> I.E. I want to make sure I don't lose data. >>> >>> I have a couple of computers now which I really >>> would hate to have to rebuild due to hardware >>> failure. These are generally computers which >>> run a machine, such as the automatic test system >>> and the pick and place machine. These machines >>> area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) >>> mostly off the shelf hardware running various >>> versions of windows. I'd like to take a full >>> image, and have at least a reasonable chance of >>> putting it back on similar hardware (probably >>> same motherboard, maybe different storage >>> medium) and it just work. >>> >>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton >>> Ghost. But that's been discontinued (and I >>> understand it was going downhill before that). >>> So I'm looking for whatever the current modern >>> version is. >>> >>> I know there's a few tools out there which do >>> this (Macrium, Acronis, etc). But the reviews >>> are all littered with failures. Unfortunately >>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of >>> clue and how much of this is broken software. >>> >>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with >>> using these modern equivalents? Preferably >>> something which runs on a range of Windows >>> OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS. >>> >>> -- *Forrest Christian* >>> /CEO//, PacketFlux >>> Technologies, Inc./ >>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+%0D+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+%C2%A0+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Road, Helena, MT 59602 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35 >>> 77+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> | >>> http://www.packetflux.com >>> <http://www.packetflux.com/> >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> >>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> >>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, >>> PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ >>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 35 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577%2BCountryside%2BRoad,%2BHelena,%2BMT%2B59602&entry=gmail&source=g>77 >>> Countryside Road, >>> Helena, MT 59602 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35 >>> 77+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> | >>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/> >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> >>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> >>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
