Have you checked Veeam yet?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <[email protected]> To: "af" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:38:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync. As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc.. So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines. Which is what I started this thread about. Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf. With varying definitions of identical. Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much. Definitely not enough to prevent an image copy from working. On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] > wrote: What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and then imaged from one to the next. Then just store the extra machines nearby. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's... I hope the designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for eternity... On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: <blockquote> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works consistently on modern hardware. Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the whole issue would be irrelevant. So I'm stuck with a chunk of older equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to set up automation with it. On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough to make them work eventually. We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I know you don't have the luxury. On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions. To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware. One won't install on anything after Windows 7. The other one requires windows 8.1 or 10. Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the latter versions, it just won't install on them. I think it uses some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7. So a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else can get installed. A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run. On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC? What if you had the files from the old one? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> 1100 Wayne St < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > Suite 1337 < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > Troy, OH 45373 < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a possibility. The OS on these machines need direct access to the hardware. Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the surface to windows to make it work. Adding a VM layer just isn't practical in this case. National Instruments describes it best: "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices." My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above. In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not the underlying hardware. If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware. Knowing this, I often actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the spares. And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same time, or from the same batch. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable. DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set. Put it in Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343> 11 00 Wayne St < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > Suite 1337 < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > Troy, OH 45373 < https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g > On Dec 21, 2017 11 :06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] >> wrote: Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't lose data. I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild due to hardware failure. These are generally computers which run a machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine. These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf hardware running various versions of windows. I'd like to take a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work. It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost. But that's been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that). So I'm looking for whatever the current modern version is. I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc). But the reviews are all littered with failures. Unfortunately it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents? Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 < https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g > [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] > | http://www.packetflux.com < http://www.packetflux.com/ > < http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian > < http://facebook.com/packetflux > < http://twitter.com/@packetflux > -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 35 77 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 < https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g > [email protected] <mailto: [email protected] > | http://www.packetflux.com < http://www.packetflux.com/ > < http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian > < http://facebook.com/packetflux > < http://twitter.com/@packetflux > </blockquote> </blockquote>
