This argument from Robert Levy is not quite right, in my opinion. While most animals do not have a sophisticated language, it can be seen that animals are capable of learning about routine events and attach meaning to linguistic cues (or other kinds of sensory events like bells) to those routine generalizations. That would constitute a language, and it exemplifies the contention that to collect insight about (the generalizations of a kind) of event constitutes a symbolization of a precursor of the event. The knowledge that a precursor might represent an event thereby demonstrates that the animal has a basic 'linguistic' ability. And the idea that an animal can associate a learned signal with a possible event (like dinner) shows that the animal has the power of a 'linguistic' imagination. Could designing a robot that has to learn to walk be the breakthrough in strong AI according to Robert's thesis? Because there are some animals that can learn to walk within a few hours of being born. A foal is an example. Foals have spindly legs that splay a little with the first steps but they are not mechanically designed for stability like a stationary landing pod on a spacecraft. The idea that designing an artificial process that is simple for some animals might represent a breakthrough in AI does not make sense for one reason. It does not take complexity into account. (I am speaking of complicatedness of course.) It is very easy to design AI programs that can operate within extremely simple domain data-spaces. The problem is dealing with extremely complicated domain environments where complexity is a major hurdle. It is a mistake to think that language research in AI is not a pathway towards AGI. However it is a mistake to think that linguistic abilities are themselves strong AI just as it is a mistake to think that designing a robot that can learn to walk is strong AI. Both of these challenges can be met by simplifying the environmental domain sufficiently. The challenge is finding a way that true learning can take place when confronted with thousands of complications. Jim Bromer
On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 7:24 PM Robert Levy <[email protected]> wrote: > It's very easy to show that "AGI should not be designed for NL". Just ask > yourself the following questions: > > 1. How many species demonstrate impressive leverage of intentional > behaviors? (My answer would be: all of them, though some more than others) > 2. How many species have language (My answer: only one) > 3. How biologically different do you think humans are from apes? (My > answer: not much different, the whole human niche is probably a consequence > one adaptive difference: cooperative communication by scaffolding of joint > attention) > > I'm with Rodney Brooks on this, the hard part of AGI has nothing to do > with language, it has to do with agents being highly optimized to control > an environment in terms of ecological information supporting > perception/action. Just as uplifting apes will likely require only minor > changes, uplifting animaloid AGI will likely require only minor changes. > Even then we still haven't explicitly cared about language, we've cared > about cooperation by means of joint attention, which can be made use of > culturally develop language. > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:05 PM Boris Kazachenko <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I would be more than happy to pay: >> https://github.com/boris-kz/CogAlg/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md , but I >> don't think you are working on AGI. >> No one here does, this is a NLP chatbot crowd. Anyone who thinks that AGI >> should be designed for NL data as a primary input is profoundly confused. >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 7:04 AM Stefan Reich via AGI <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Not from you guys necessarily... :o) But I thought I'd let you know. >>> >>> Pitch: >>> https://www.meetup.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Meetup/messages/boards/thread/52050719 >>> >>> Let's see if it can be done... funny how some hurdles always seem to >>> appear when you're about to finish something good. Something about the >>> duality of the universe I guess. >>> >>> -- >>> Stefan Reich >>> BotCompany.de // Java-based operating systems >>> >> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery > options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T191003acdcbf5ef8-Ma8c45167d4fb07a3df8d0c2f> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T191003acdcbf5ef8-M66ba52edebdc12c3e6155ce1 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
