The Plot Thickens... In pre-mediation research, I discovered a provable fraud - probably not provable enough to win in court, but good enough to convince all participants. Further, the fraud was committed by an attorney!!! The fraud was missed by 2 other attorneys and the other parties. Now, it is a whole new ballgame.
The opposition is two parties having nearly equal interests. The fraud looks like a good tool to use to split the parties and negotiate with the non-fraudulent party - leaving the fraudulent party to choose between accepting what the other party was agreeable to, or further perfecting the fraud and possibly paving the way to court. We don't know how difficult the non-fraudulent party is going to be to deal with - but the discovery of the fraud pulls the rug out from under their present position. One possibility to settle other matters and also let the fraudulent party off the hook is to exchange money for a long-term note, so we get nearly 100% in a combination of cash and notes - which would render moot any ethics complaint we might make, because ultimately we didn't lose anything. It would be blackmail to threaten, but NOT to structure the deal so there was no accrued loss upon which to make a complaint. The lesson here is that this looked like basically a two-party deal since 2 of the 3 parties had nearly identical positions, when in fact it was really a 3-party deal. This throws everything into non-zero-sum territory, compete with all of the attendant complexities. As usual, the devil is in the details. Thoughts? *Steve* On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:05 AM Steve Richfield <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 3:12 AM Stefan Reich via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Quite a story. I had hoped you had found the magic words to get out of >> the situation, but I guess this goes too. >> > > No. I'm a lot smarter now, but still see it now as I saw it then, that I > might have been able to argue myself out of a fight, but in attempting to > do so I would likely set myself up for a Westside Story ending. Winning a > fight isn't as good as not fighting, but was WAY better than the > alternatives. > > I > don't assume you're the kind of person who starts fights like this. > > I was always the youngest in my class with an August 27 birthday, and the > smallest not having reached "full size" until I was 24, and being smart, I > was a natural bully magnet. > > In the 5th grade I searched my large school for others in my situation, > checked out every book on martial arts in the Seattle Public Library > system, and formed a secret group to study and become proficient in a > variety of martial arts. Everyone got a book and instructions to learn 3 > techniques, practice them on each other, then teach them to the rest of us. > Then, we traded books and did this again. > > We developed a sort of "geek quan do" of appearing inept and fearing > fights - so we wouldn't "own" the injuries we "inadvertently" inflicted. > This is related to "drunken sailor Kung Fu". > > Most others over the years had their own really scary experiences similar > but different than mine - and survived uninjured. One kid later dealt with > 3 teenage assailants, by throwing the nearest assailant onto his head, > leaving him unconscious or dead, and ran off while the other two assailants > tended to their fallen friend. > > Once in class the teacher was called out for a moment. A bully then jumped > up and ran to me to hit me while I was stuck in my chair, but I was able to > jump up in time and deliver a single blow to his nose, breaking it with a > loud crunch. As he was recoiling I sat back down, and the teacher came back > in, having only been out for a few seconds. Seeing the bully standing there > with blood running down his shirt and dripping onto the floor, the teacher > asked what had happened - but got no answer, so he sent the bully to get > medical care. > > Every altercation was its own unique story. > > I was forced into about one fight per year, so by the time of my story I > had become pretty proficient. > > This was the only fight where I struck a compromise between avoidance and > risk of death. > > Steve >> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 19:16 Steve Richfield <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Stefan, >>> >>> "What a f...ing winp, who needs 4 armed guards just to walk around. You >>> gotta be the biggest wimp there is". >>> >>> "Hey someone, throw him a knife" >>> >>> "Only wimps, women and sissies need weapons. I wanna grind your face >>> into the concrete with my bare hands". >>> >>> With that, he folded up his knife and put it into his pocket. >>> >>> I then spit in his face and bitchslapped him as hard as I could. >>> >>> He lost it and came at me like a cat with fingernails extended. >>> >>> Then for maybe a minute I was bullfighting, stepping aside as I tagged >>> him each time he made successive passes. I had relaxed as much as possible >>> to conserve my energy. >>> >>> Then he settled down and decided to really fight, but he had already >>> dumped and blown his adrenaline. After a few punches that confirmed his >>> exhaustion, I unleashed a barrage of 2nd knuckle punches to his face. >>> >>> He blocked with his fists, but 2nd knuckles go easily between fists, so >>> he opened his hands. I probably broke some small bones in his hands >>> >>> He then turned away from me, swinging uselessly around his sides at me. >>> >>> Now, his gang was laughing and they came running to rescue him. >>> >>> Hiding my own exhaustion, I looked at the gang and asked "Does anyone >>> else wanna play?" but I got no answer, so I walked away >>> >>> I had won mostly because my opponent was pursuing two other goals >>> besides beating me - impressing his gang and satisfying his anger, while my >>> only goal was to stay alive. >>> >>> I made it look like I just played with him, then finished him off, >>> though that was NOT how I saw it. >>> >>> I hid my martial arts skills by converting from fist to 2nd knuckle at >>> the last instant before contacts - which fortunately no one noticed. >>> >>> The gang didn't then attack me because it looked like I had beaten their >>> leader 100% fair and square, though I had "cheated" on plain sight. >>> >>> Yes, my ears were ringing, I could taste a bit of my own blood, I was a >>> bit dizzy, etc., but this had worked out perfectly. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:44 AM Stefan Reich via AGI <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> > I once had a related incident, where in high-school I was accosted by >>>> a gang of 5 teenage switch-blade-carrying delinquents >>>> >>>> THAT happened to you? OMG. Our schools are bad too, but not like that I >>>> guess. Kudos for solving this situation. Are you going to tell us how you >>>> did it? >>>> >>>> On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 08:34, Steve Richfield < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am helping a friend get ready for a million-dollar mediation - and >>>>> we are wrestling with a complex issue that appears to be mathematical in >>>>> nature, akin to the Prisoner's Dilemma, and possibly a missing piece of >>>>> AGI. >>>>> >>>>> The situation is complicated, but in a way like Israel or Ireland >>>>> where two groups think they own the same thing, so they get together to >>>>> discuss how this might be unfairly divided between them. My group sees the >>>>> other as robbers who have acted fraudulently to secure their position, >>>>> while the other group has papers in place giving them effective title - >>>>> but >>>>> with a 20-year wait to get anything. The mediation is how to divide up the >>>>> money now, with some dangerous but uncertain leverage to ruin the robbers >>>>> in court if they don't act reasonably. >>>>> >>>>> This seems to all boil down to “robber’s rules”. Why don’t robbers >>>>> routinely kill their victims and strip them of their valuables? This is >>>>> addressed in *Adventures in Arabia* by William Seabrook. There are >>>>> several reasons – that all seem to sort of apply here: >>>>> 1. Other robbers will see killers as being without principle, and >>>>> so won’t trust them to fairly divide the booty. Therefore, it is more >>>>> profitable to first kill the prospective killer – instead of the victim. >>>>> 2. Blood is SO messy – when simply the threat of death can >>>>> probably accomplish the same thing. >>>>> 3. If you don’t leave your victim with SOMETHING he might perish, >>>>> and his death would be blamed on you. >>>>> 4. If you are too greedy, others will hear about it and mount a >>>>> posse to come after you. >>>>> 5. If he has powerful friends, this could result in your own death. >>>>> >>>>> In a real-life incident described in his book, the author was accosted >>>>> out in the middle of the dessert by a band of bandits. He produced a note >>>>> written in Arabic he had been given to address such situations. The >>>>> robbers >>>>> carefully read the note – and sent him on his way without robbing him. How >>>>> could any words possibly have turned such a situation around? His next >>>>> goal >>>>> was to find out precisely what the note said… >>>>> >>>>> I once had a related incident, where in high-school I was accosted by >>>>> a gang of 5 teenage switch-blade-carrying delinquents – very much like the >>>>> last scene in *Westside Story*. I was able to walk away uninjured. I >>>>> starting by challenging their leader… >>>>> >>>>> I would think that SOMEONE has studied this sort of thing in the past >>>>> - does anyone here know of such a study? >>>>> >>>>> Mediations seem SO much like ball squeezing contests. So, what is the >>>>> winning strategy? >>>>> >>>>> With no agreement my group gets nothing, and the other group must wait >>>>> 20 years to get it all. With an agreement, we cut this baby in two >>>>> according to agreed upon percentages. >>>>> >>>>> There seems to be two camps: >>>>> 1. Demand 100%, or else Russian Roulette in court with maybe a 50:50 >>>>> chance, and >>>>> 2. Divide it in half or ??? >>>>> >>>>> There will doubtless be head games, Mutt and Jeff setups, etc., as >>>>> this thing unfolds. >>>>> >>>>> I posted this here because SO much of what people here expect an AGI >>>>> to resolve are disputes much like this one. >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Steve Richfield >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Stefan Reich >>>> BotCompany.de // Java-based operating systems >>>> >>> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* >> / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + >> participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery >> options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink >> <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T5dd6b6c7d648588e-M23c4da7b410a69fda1231db6> >> -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. 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