John:We know all this Mike. We know the difference between AI and AGI that's
why we work on it.
Which world are you living in, John? I was going to leave your post, then I
realised that it must be remarked on.
This forum over the years has produced an endless stream of would-be AGI-ers
who "think" they know what AGI is - and clearly don't - by common
agreement of *other* AGI-ers. Not me. Other AGI-ers.
People who think that Mindforth, chess programs (or altered chess programs),
CYC, or souped-up CYC, Siri, Watson, or (Siri + Watson +...), or the
solution to TSP, or probabilistic logic, etc. etc , constitute AGI and/or
will solve the problem of AGI.
And most other AGI-ers disagree - believe that they are *fundamentally*
mistaken and not doing AGI at all.
Clearly, by anyone's criteria, an awful lot of AGI-ers - v. technically
literate AGI-ers - are v. confused about what AGI is. Clearly not everyone
does know the difference between AI and AGI. In fact, this is a v. confused
field.
And an awful lot of people still make the most basic mistakes about AGI -
think that a drawing program is capable of visual object
recognition/depiction, or that encoding of visual pictures also constitutes
object recognition, (that was a repeated mistake of Ben's - the leader of
the field).
You clearly think that you too know what AGI is - and of course loads of
people are doing "improvisation" as outlined by me. But you haven't given a
single example, just handwaved. Try to produce one - if you're as serious
about AGI as you say - and you may find out that you're more confused than
you think.
You don't solve confusion - yours or the field's - by pretending it doesn't
exist.
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Rose
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 2:14 PM
To: AGI
Subject: RE: [agi] Does Siri + Watson = AGI ? (Answer = No)
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]]
No one is doing this, John, and no one is saying this. No one is producing
true improvising, exploratory robots. I don't mind you swearing at me, but
if you're going to, bloody well produce some examples of your assertion.
*Where* is this being said? And if you can't produce them, then have the
courtesy to admit it.
In software, improvisation is done in many, many applications. In robotics
and other electromechanical media it is done experimentally, not to the
extent you suggest, but looking for a box in rubble, although there are
robots that do this somewhat, it can be a bit dangerous depending on the
application.
We know all this Mike. We know the difference between AI and AGI that's why
we work on it. But we have concrete technical research and theories and
experimentation not just handwavium.
Your problem issue is that you don't acknowledge other people's work and
really show no respect. Rare or/ unique individuals like Ben Goertzel who
produce a high quantity and quality of related ground-breaking literature,
for public consumption by the way, you totally disregard and disrespect
without reading and understanding more that 1% of it.
Then we give you this little platform, this email list, a window into some
of the remaining participating AGI researcher's minds and you really abuse
it...
I give you credit, you come back like a tiger whenever challenged. BUT - AGI
is one of the most important things to happen in science and technology, and
human history. Picture yourself walking into NASA and telling them that they
screwed up and don't know what they are doing because there has never been a
man walking on Mars. Go try it, without any scientific or technical
background and see what happens.
AGI is huge. This is the be-all end-all. And this is a rare opportunity to
participate in something this big from the ground up. These opportunities
are gone before you blink. Don't be a troll.
John
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