Interesting. I have to think some more about this or sleep on it.... I was reading the wiki and I suppose my conceptions of computer are somewhat inadequate/obsolete. The wiki says roughly that a computer is "that which processes information" but again, in order to process information, you'd be obliged to have someone who knew that there existed information, in other words a conscious entity would be required, so you are back in the vitalism camp.
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]>wrote: > Assumptions: > > A1. The Brain is not a computer (not similar to a computer, either digital > or analog). > > A2. The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or other > variety. > > Premises: > > P1. A computer is a mechanism that does soImething physical according to > some rules. > (Being computer-centric implies being physicalist-centric). > > Conclusions: > > C1. The Brain is not a mechanism that does something physical according > to some rules. > (i.e., there are no rules, and hence no regularity) to the brain's > workings). > > C2. The Universe is not a mechanism that does something physical according > to some rules. > (i.e., there are no rules for the universes' workings). > > > QED. > > > ------------------------------ > From: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:27:06 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer" > To: [email protected] > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Piaget Modeler > <[email protected]>wrote: > > Let's assume the contrary and see if we can arrive at falsum. > > The Brain is not a computer, and is not similar to a computer, either > digital or analog. > > The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or any other > variety. > > What can we now infer? > > ~PM. > > > Well, under those assumptions I think that would put us squarely in the > vitalism camp. > > The thing that is still a bit of trouble under this argument is the notion > of what IS a computer in the first place. You'd need to establish that > first. Reading popular press like this, the wikis, etc etc, it seems like > that notion of computer has been taken far beyond what Turing originally > had in mind (I know he also had the oracle, which is supercomputing, but > for the most part people think of computer as the digital or analog device. > I think really what computer means now is simply some mechanicsm that does > something *physical* according to some rules, ie., when you are > computer-centric you are physicalist-centric. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > From: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:02:09 -0700 > Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer" > To: [email protected] > > The problem I have with the "universe is a computer" claim is like this: > > AI/AGI is tough. It is not clear how AGI could run on a Turing machine, > thus some people think it will take a super-Turing machine, but this still > falls under the definition of computer to some people, since it seems like > some people define computer as just some mechanism that does something > according to some rules. The human brain has also been declared a > computer. Now if we then declare ALL of reality to be a computer, that is, > the "universe is a computer," then suddenly we seem to have solved the AGI > problem, since if the universe is a computer, the AGI is thus by that > stroke computational. Then it becomes just a problem of figuring out what > the computations are. > > The problem I have with that, if I have it "right" is that there seems to > be some wild leaps and conflations going on. I guess I wish people would > reign in what they mean by computer. > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae> | > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-5cfde295> | > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
