PM,
This is interesting inasmuch as it shows you like an awful lot of people here,
really don’t seem to understand the difference between logical reasoning and
real world reasoning.
Try your logical approach to reasoning about how the brain works – what’s the
nature of the engram?
It would be absurd. As things stand, in our ignorance, there are infinite
possibilities for how the engram works. There are no premises or conclusions
that you can apply.
Still less are there premises and conclusions about the origin of the universe,
and whether any mechanism, computational or other, informed and informs its
development.
But so many of you really don’t understand that logic doesn’t apply to the real
world - and is utterly useless for AGI.
From: Piaget Modeler
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 12:23 AM
To: AGI
Subject: RE: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
Assumptions:
A1. The Brain is not a computer (not similar to a computer, either digital or
analog).
A2. The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or other variety.
Premises:
P1. A computer is a mechanism that does something physical according to some
rules.
(Being computer-centric implies being physicalist-centric).
Conclusions:
C1. The Brain is not a mechanism that does something physical according to
some rules.
(i.e., there are no rules, and hence no regularity) to the brain's
workings).
C2. The Universe is not a mechanism that does something physical according to
some rules.
(i.e., there are no rules for the universes' workings).
QED.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:27:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
To: [email protected]
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]>
wrote:
Let's assume the contrary and see if we can arrive at falsum.
The Brain is not a computer, and is not similar to a computer, either digital
or analog.
The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or any other
variety.
What can we now infer?
~PM.
Well, under those assumptions I think that would put us squarely in the
vitalism camp.
The thing that is still a bit of trouble under this argument is the notion of
what IS a computer in the first place. You'd need to establish that first.
Reading popular press like this, the wikis, etc etc, it seems like that notion
of computer has been taken far beyond what Turing originally had in mind (I
know he also had the oracle, which is supercomputing, but for the most part
people think of computer as the digital or analog device. I think really what
computer means now is simply some mechanicsm that does something *physical*
according to some rules, ie., when you are computer-centric you are
physicalist-centric.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
To: [email protected]
The problem I have with the "universe is a computer" claim is like this:
AI/AGI is tough. It is not clear how AGI could run on a Turing machine, thus
some people think it will take a super-Turing machine, but this still falls
under the definition of computer to some people, since it seems like some
people define computer as just some mechanism that does something according to
some rules. The human brain has also been declared a computer. Now if we then
declare ALL of reality to be a computer, that is, the "universe is a computer,"
then suddenly we seem to have solved the AGI problem, since if the universe is
a computer, the AGI is thus by that stroke computational. Then it becomes just
a problem of figuring out what the computations are.
The problem I have with that, if I have it "right" is that there seems to be
some wild leaps and conflations going on. I guess I wish people would reign in
what they mean by computer.
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