It's very likely that people in general are not logical. But it's also likely
that an AI (or AGI) canbe created that is logical. And it may be the case that
the A(G)I's logical reasoning may be superior to human reasoning. We can
certainly envision artificial systems which are based in logic, and which
exceed human capabilities. I know this because jet planes fly faster than
birds.
~PM
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 11:47:53 +0100
PM,
This is interesting inasmuch as it shows you like an awful lot of people
here, really don’t seem to understand the difference between logical reasoning
and real world reasoning.
Try your logical approach to reasoning about how the brain works – what’s
the nature of the engram?
It would be absurd. As things stand, in our ignorance, there are infinite
possibilities for how the engram works. There are no premises or conclusions
that you can apply.
Still less are there premises and conclusions about the origin of the
universe, and whether any mechanism, computational or other, informed and
informs its development.
But so many of you really don’t understand that logic doesn’t apply to the
real world - and is utterly useless for AGI.
From: Piaget Modeler
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 12:23 AM
To: AGI
Subject: RE: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
Assumptions:
A1. The Brain is not a computer (not similar to a computer, either digital
or analog).
A2. The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or other
variety.
Premises:
P1. A computer is a mechanism that does something physical according
to some rules.
(Being computer-centric implies being
physicalist-centric).
Conclusions:
C1. The Brain is not a mechanism that does something physical
according to some rules.
(i.e., there are no rules, and hence
no regularity) to the brain's workings).
C2. The Universe is not a mechanism that does something physical according
to some rules.
(i.e., there are no rules for the universes'
workings).
QED.
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:27:06 -0700
Subject:
Re: [agi] "The universe is a computer"
To: [email protected]
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]>
wrote:
Let's assume the contrary and see if we can arrive at falsum.
The Brain is not a computer, and is not similar to a computer, either
digital or analog.
The Universe is not a computer, neither digital, analog, or any other
variety.
What can we now infer?
~PM.
Well, under those assumptions I think that would put us squarely in the
vitalism camp.
The thing that is still a bit of trouble under this argument is the notion
of what IS a computer in the first place. You'd need to establish that
first. Reading popular press like this, the wikis, etc etc, it seems like
that notion of computer has been taken far beyond what Turing originally had in
mind (I know he also had the oracle, which is supercomputing, but for the most
part people think of computer as the digital or analog device. I think
really what computer means now is simply some mechanicsm that does something
*physical* according to some rules, ie., when you are computer-centric you are
physicalist-centric.
From: [email protected]
Date:
Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [agi] "The universe is a
computer"
To: [email protected]
The problem I have with the "universe is a computer" claim is like
this:
AI/AGI is tough. It is not clear how AGI could run on a Turing
machine, thus some people think it will take a super-Turing machine, but this
still falls under the definition of computer to some people, since it seems
like some people define computer as just some mechanism that does something
according to some rules. The human brain has also been declared a
computer. Now if we then declare ALL of reality to be a computer, that
is, the "universe is a computer," then suddenly we seem to have solved the
AGI
problem, since if the universe is a computer, the AGI is thus by that stroke
computational. Then it becomes just a problem of figuring out what the
computations are.
The problem I have with that, if I have it "right" is that there seems to
be some wild leaps and conflations going on. I guess I wish people would
reign in what they mean by computer.
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