> > Patterns cannot change or evolve in any way.
That's a rather bizarre claim to make. Any notion you may have of a pattern necessarily being unchanging is something restricted to your own personal definition of the term, and doesn't intrude into mine. The ability of a pattern to change over time depends on the system in which it is embedded. If the system makes room for patterns to change, then they can change. You apparently have in mind some sort of fragile, restricted system where nothing ever changes. An Evolutionary or Genetic Algorithm is a good example of a case where patterns are free to change. (Actually, Genetic Programming in particular is a much better example, since some GA encodings can be rather stiff and restricted.) There are plenty of other algorithms out there designed for dealing with shifting, changing patterns. New elements, fundamental change, evolution, creativity – AGI – and the > real world – have bugger all (or v. little) to do with patterns. And this, > to repeat, is demonstrable and incontrovertible. Evolution is itself a pattern (of behavior). It can be simulated on a machine (by copying that pattern) and then used to generate creativity just as it does in the real world. What you claim is demonstrable and incontrovertible has not been demonstrated and is therefore being controverted. If you have a demonstration, I'm still waiting for it. The things you keep saying patterns can't do (or have nothing to do with) are things that don't apply to my definition of pattern. What *is *your definition of pattern that you make such outlandish claims about them? pat·tern [pat-ern; Brit. pat-n] <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html> Show IPA noun 1. a decorative design, as for wallpaper, china, or textile fabrics,etc. 2. decoration or ornament having such a design. 3. a natural or chance marking, configuration, or design: patterns of frost on the window. 4. a distinctive style, model <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/model>, or form: a new pattern of army helmet. 5. a combination of qualities, acts, tendencies, etc., forming a consistent or characteristic arrangement: the behavior patterns of teenagers. The definition I'm using is a blend of 3, 4, and 5 above. The key words to me are "chance...configuration", "style", and "arrangement". Note there is no mention of being unable to change over time under any of them. The closest any of them comes is #5, which describes it as "consistent or characteristic", but this is not the same as saying "permanent or unchanging". On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > I never said patterns are repeated. Patterns can be v. complicated but > they are ultimately sickmaking because all variations on a given pattern > have the same elements in the same structural relationships – and that > includes cellular automata where there is random variation in the elements. > Patterns thus get boring (except to mathematicians). Every patchwork in a > given collection is new and different while still similar, because it has, > by definition, new elements – and satisfies our need for newness and > not-to-be-bored by the same old patterns. > > Ultimately any patchwork can be evolved by steps into any form, picture or > scene *WHATSOEVER*. A patchwork dress of abstract shapes can be evolved > into a sea of human faces or a nuclear explosion or a battlescene – or > anything. Patterns cannot change or evolve in any way. Patchworks mirror > the real world. Your local street can and will evolve into a very different > form over sufficient time. All forms and scenes in the real world evolve > over time. And no one street is exactly like any other right now – at a > given point in time. Every street can be regarded as an “evolution” of > every other street. > > New elements, fundamental change, evolution, creativity – AGI – and the > real world – have bugger all (or v. little) to do with patterns. And this, > to repeat, is demonstrable and incontrovertible. > > *From:* Aaron Hosford <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:03 PM > *To:* AGI <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [agi] Randomness: Mathematics as Perceptual Bias > > I didn't say anything at all about repeated patterns. There are other > types of patterns besides repetition. Clearly a sentence like, "My dog ate > my homework," or the equivalent predicate in logic, doesn't indicate a > repeating pattern. (Unless, of course, the excuse gets used repeatedly.) > And yet this is a pattern. I would go so far as to say, it's a pattern made > up of a "patchwork" of relationships between several objects and events. > > > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:11 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Patterns exist - but they are islands in the patchwork seas of the >> real world. The brain is primarily designed to make sense of patchwork >> scenes and patchwork objects - and if you look too long at a heavily >> patterned scene, like a specially designed patterned room, you get sick – >> it ain’t natural. The patchwork nature of real world scenes is obvious and >> incontrovertible. >> *From:* Aaron Hosford <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 8:43 PM >> *To:* AGI <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Randomness: Mathematics as Perceptual Bias >> >> Summaries of perceptual information. These are the elusive "patterns" you >> say don't exist. >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Mike Tintner >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> *Aaron: Todor's point was simply that logic (and language in general) >>> merely express summaries* >>> ** >>> *.... summaries of what? 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