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في ٢٤‏/٠٣‏/٢٠١٣، الساعة ١٠:٢٠ م، كتب Steve Richfield 
<[email protected]>:

> Fatmah,
> 
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Fatmah <[email protected]> wrote:
>> we developed some units
> 
> What did they do?
> 
> Steve 
>> 
>> From: Steve Richfield <[email protected]>
>> To: AGI <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:57 PM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [agi] 40 years of parsing NL...
>> 
>> PM (and Logan),
>> 
>> You said in a previous posting that you have experience with L-A. What have 
>> you (or others) done with it?
>> 
>> I ask because once you sidestep semantic units, it seems to  me like you 
>> have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, at least for the usual 
>> applications needing some degree of "understanding". Maybe I just haven't 
>> noticed a good application that doesn't need semantic units, or I haven't 
>> understood a good way to live without them. Sure you can "parse" while 
>> ignoring them, but then of what use is the resulting parse?!!!
>> 
>> Idioms (of which there are thousands) are a sort of ill-behaved semantic 
>> unit. How do you handle idioms while sidestepping semantic units?
>> 
>> Logan: Have you been following this discussion? RADP is close enough to what 
>> I am planning to have the same semantic unit needs. Can you help make sense 
>> of this? 
>> 
>> What (if anything) am I missing here?
>> 
>> Steve
>> =================
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Steve Richfield <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> PM,
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Actually, it's more than making a chatbot.  It's having a real robot respond 
>> to a person based on linking utterances
>> (made by either the robot or the person) to the current context (milieu 
>> entities and events). 
>> 
>> I think before you make your Worldcomp presentation it would behoove you to 
>> read the NEWCAT and 
>> Computation of Language books so that you can adequately articulate the 
>> differences in your approach.
>> 
>> We seem to be talking past each other here. My presentation at Worldcomp 
>> need not compare with anything, most especially character-based methods that 
>> don't seem to even recognize what parsing applications need from a parser, 
>> let alone squarely addressing the how to provide what those applications 
>> need. There is SO much that these methods don't on first glance address.
>> 
>> Each parsing method seems to need a champion, and you seem to be the 
>> resident champion for L-A grammar here. I know you want to just send me some 
>> hyperlinks and tell me to go away and read some books, but here on this 
>> forum we each learn our own particular areas, and defend against stones 
>> tossed by people defending nearby areas. I tossed a stone your way when I 
>> claimed blinding speed. You tossed a stone back when you explained that all 
>> that was needed to parse was to move about though L-A map of English 
>> grammar. I tossed the stone back, pointing out that losing the semantic 
>> elements (many of which are idioms that don't make much grammatical sense) 
>> throws the baby out with the bath water, because applications (other than 
>> machine translation) are only interested in semantics, not syntax. Dragging 
>> semantics out of a parse tree is a really BIG job, requiring the SAME tests 
>> as other parsing methods. Sure you produce a parse in a hurry by not doing 
>> the job of other parsers, but then doing that job loses the speed advantage.
>> 
>> To illustrate some of the challenges, I took a large idiom dictionary and 
>> tried looking up idioms that I commonly use in everyday speech, and only 
>> found about half of them. So much for quality control. How does L-A deal 
>> with idioms? Once you have discarded the low-level semantic elements as part 
>> of putting words into parse trees, recognizing idioms could become quite 
>> difficult. Further. many idioms are ungrammatical. Are you planning to 
>> include idioms as part of the map of the language?!!!
>> 
>> Anyway, I **DO** want to understand L-A enough to see if it is significant, 
>> or have you understand my method enough to be able to compare the two, so we 
>> can both see the relationships between these two VERY different things.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:30:59 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [agi] 40 years of parsing NL...
>> 
>> From: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> 
>> PM,
>> 
>> This guy is talking about a different approach for making a chatbot - right? 
>> If so, he doesn't show any indication of knowing about present chatbots. 
>> Present technology is to have a variety of sentence skeletons, into which 
>> appropriate words and phrases are placed, which seems to work quite well.
>> 
>> I would think that promoting a technology would best be done with FREE 
>> documents and other supporting material. I already have the 10,000 most 
>> commonly used words in a file in order of frequency of use, if you or anyone 
>> else wants a copy.
>> 
>> I believe that my approach will be fast enough to keep up with the Internet, 
>> and I haven't seen any other approach that promises such blinding speed. In 
>> theory, all I need do is get the word out, and wait for folks at Google, 
>> Yahoo, and Facebook to discover it, which is my present plan.
>> 
>> I also plan to present this at the next WORLDCOMP conference.
>> 
>> BTW, ***THANKS*** for holding my feet to the fire!!!  I plan to adapt these 
>> discussions into the paper I present at WORLDCOMP.
>> 
>> Steve
>> ===================
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> Roland's next step:  
>> 
>> http://www.amazon.com/Computational-Linguistics-Talking-Robots-Processing/dp/3642224318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363984424&sr=8-1&keywords=talking+robots+roland+hausser
>> 
>> Computational Linguistics and Talking Robots: Processing Content in Database 
>> Semantics
>> 
>> 
>> Publication Date: September 14, 2011 | ISBN-10: 3642224318 | ISBN-13: 
>> 978-3642224317 | Edition: 2011
>> The practical task of building a talking robot requires a theory of how 
>> natural language communication works. Conversely, the best way to 
>> computationally verify a theory of natural language communication is to 
>> demonstrate its functioning concretely in the form of a talking robot, the 
>> epitome of human–machine communication. To build an actual robot requires 
>> hardware that provides appropriate recognition and action interfaces, and 
>> because such hardware is hard to develop the approach in this book is 
>> theoretical: the author presents an artificial cognitive agent with language 
>> as a software system called database semantics (DBS). Because a theoretical 
>> approach does not have to deal with the technical difficulties of hardware 
>> engineering there is no reason to simplify the system – instead the software 
>> components of DBS aim at completeness of function and of data coverage in 
>> word form recognition, syntactic–semantic interpretation and inferencing, 
>> leaving the procedural implementation of elementary concepts for later. In 
>> this book the author first examines the universals of natural language and 
>> explains the Database Semantics approach. Then in Part I he examines the 
>> following natural language communication issues: using external surfaces; 
>> the cycle of natural language communication; memory structure; autonomous 
>> control; and learning. In Part II he analyzes the coding of content 
>> according to the aspects: semantic relations of structure; simultaneous 
>> amalgamation of content; graph-theoretical considerations; computing 
>> perspective in dialogue; and computing perspective in text. The book ends 
>> with a concluding chapter, a bibliography and an index. The book will be of 
>> value to researchers, graduate students and engineers in the areas of 
>> artificial intelligence and robotics, in particular those who deal with 
>> natural language processing.
>> 
>> 
>> For you, Steve, the next step is to write a book about your approach and 
>> sell it for $100 a pop, or $75 for the e-book, 
>> and do a book tour (if possible).
>> 
>> Then gain some early adopters and market traction.
>> 
>> The point is to make money WHILE promoting your idea. 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> ~PM
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:13:23 -0700
>> Subject: [agi] 40 years of parsing NL...
>> From: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> Piaget, Logan, et al,
>> 
>> We have had some interesting discussions about which method is best and 
>> fastest, but is it even possible?!!!
>> 
>> My own big wake-up call came many years ago, when I recorded a class I 
>> presented, and had it transcribed with instructions "don't edit it, just 
>> transcribe what I said". It was FULL of fragments, missing words, and even 
>> misstatements, but the class had NO problem grokking what I had said.
>> 
>> Similarly, just take any unedited posting (you can easily recognize editing 
>> by the lack of ANY spelling errors) and try hand-diagramming its sentences. 
>> They will be better than spoken sentences, but still, you will have problems 
>> with around half of them.
>> 
>> Several early NL projects set out with dictionaries that identified every 
>> part of speech that each word could be, and programmatically set about 
>> identifying a set of assumptions wherein each sentence would hang together. 
>> Unfortunately, few sentences had exactly one solution, and the presence of 
>> any presumed words fractured the entire process.
>> 
>> More recently, "ontological" approaches have attempted to sub-divide the 
>> parts of speech, e.g. identifying whether a particular noun can have color, 
>> weight, etc., to assist in assigning the targets of adjectives and adverbs.
>> 
>> The present consensus seems to be that speech is made to a particular 
>> audience with a particular set of presumed knowledge to use to fill in the 
>> gaps, and an automated listener/reader will NOT be able to understand "plain 
>> English" without similar real-world experience as an intended reader. 
>> Without that experience, lots of gaps and disambiguation errors will persist 
>> regardless of how much programming effort is expended.
>> 
>> Language translation can skirt many/most of these issues, by preserving the 
>> semantic ambiguities in the translation, to let the reader/listener figure 
>> out what the computer failed to figure out.
>> 
>> No, there will never ever be "full understanding", if for no other reason 
>> than some of what I say simply doesn't make sense. Instead, what can be 
>> done, and what is needed for present applications, are various forms of 
>> partial understanding. You can see this in throwing some numerical problems 
>> at WolframAlpha.com and watching the parsing of it. It picks out key words 
>> and tries ways of relating them together. Similarly, DrEliza.com picks out 
>> key words and phrases that are associated with symptoms and conditions it 
>> knows about.
>> 
>> The MOST important part of "understanding" is often identifying what the 
>> writer does NOT know (and the computer does know), sort of a reverse 
>> analysis. I refer to these as "statements of ignorance" and this is an 
>> important part of DrEliza.com
>> 
>> My parsing proposal was made as a component in a larger system in support of 
>> problem solving and sales (it is just one box among many in figure 1 in my 
>> patent application). My approach appears to be general purpose and 
>> applicable to other applications. Given that a universal parser appears to 
>> be impossible until it can walk among us, and even then will have some 
>> problems, each application must consider what it needs to obtain from the 
>> text/speech to do its job.
>> 
>> So, when relating performance of parsers, it is important to disambiguate 
>> just WHAT is being performed, e.g. just WHAT is "parsing", and what 
>> applications will a particular approach work best for?
>> 
>> Logan, what do you see are the "best fit" applications for reverse ascent 
>> descent parsing?
>> 
>> Piaget, what do you see are the "best fit" applications for LA parsing?
>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
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>> hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full 
>> employment.
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six 
>> hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full 
>> employment.
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six 
> hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full 
> employment.
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