Hi Steve,

That was a concise functional statement that emphasizes the
generality/versatility point and that the problem we are solving is much
different, it could do anything that humans could, or in particular - what
I myself do understand and practise, as a universal artist and polymath.

I can be very specific in details of workable and simple AGI applications,
for example I have a prototype/project that's related to the DARPA funded
"CALO", mine is supposed to be more general and versatile, as I myself need
it for various kinds of intellectual and cognitive activities, so it's
exactly about designing, developing and creating anything, the first seeds
were conceived back in 2007.

>ANYONE who had ANY real interest in building a workable AGI would start
out with simulations, to see where >the challenges were.

How else one could start??? This is the default way, there's actually no
other way to do it,  the design of the AGI includes constant simulations -
it is a simulation, as well as its education, development etc., you don't
breed it in the body of The Terminator or Skynet.

However you couldn't really see how exactly it will affect humans and more
specifically the humanity, it would be always only guesses, because there
are so many agents and armies and forces that could do anything.

The general challenges, I agree, are in humans, for example the fact that
Economy will have to change, but the ones who are now rich and powerful may
be unlikely to agree, or also that the machine will show that humans are
not that smart, and humans won't like the machines, I'm afraid that there
could be a situation like in the "Planet of the Apes" (the original one),
where we will be the apes... :) We might be stronger and rule the AGI and
use it only as a slave, make her a "lobotomy" etc., and in that case the
humans will be the morally inferior entities - that's also a point to be
considered, because humans inclinations toward slavery are since the
beginning of time, and the romantic Asimov's "laws of Robotics" are also
about slavery and breeding "smart dogs".

As of the philosophical questions, I've been investigating them
theoretically since so long back in time, especially relative to my age, I
wrote a novel about that when I was 18, I've written too much about it
already and generally it seems exhausted - however you're right that you
rarely may find someone appropriate to discuss on.

This essay for example was answering questions from Oxford University about
AGI, for example:

*Monday, February 20, 2012
Philosophical and Interdisciplinary Discussion on General Intelligence, AGI
and Superintelligence Safety and Human Moral | Cognitive Origins of the
Concepts of Human Soul and its Immortality | Free Will and How it
Originates Cognitively | Animate Being and Soul and the Cognitive Reason
for the Believe that "Thinking Machines can't have a Soul and
Consciousness" | Technology Making us more Humane | The Egoism of Humanity
| And more*
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2012/02/philosophical-and-interdisciplinary.html


Or this novel (but it's in Bulgarian:
http://eim.twenkid.com/old/3/26/istinata11.htm


 One of the questions:

"Oxford: Self-modifying systems: What can be proved about the performance
and capabilities of different kinds of recursively self-modifying programs?
Can a framework be developed in which demonstrably safe, recursively
self-improving AIs could be constructed, with stable and
human-friendly goal systems? "

In fact humans are the "bad guys", they are PROVEN killers and maniacs,
they are proven to have as leaders people who are not the more intelligent
- usually the most intelligent people are not aggressive, at least not
physically aggressive.

Humans have done all the killing, they are greedy, they destroy, and yes,
they do not because of their intelligence, but because of their LACK of
intelligence, and because of their primitive brain areas, their fears,
lust, dopamine-short cuts, their difficulties in communicating etc.
nonsenses.

--- How could one ensure the safety of humans and human intelligence? How
could one control humans and did we succeed in the history of humanity to
prevent wars or genocides?

It started to become possible to apply some control after there were
appropriate technologies.
Real, "natural" humans are beasts, technologies make humans to be the
humans in their own image about themselves.


Steve> BTW, it is my belief that 99% of what people expect of AGIs is
within the reach of human skills. The REAL challenges are timidity,
conformity, greed, etc., and NOT intelligence.

It woyld be within the reach of *humanity* skills - of the best of the
humans, picked one-by-one - with all the technology developed, but human
individuals often "seize" merits which do not belong to them. What one
ingenious theoretical physicist or mathematician could see from the data is
not what "a human can do", it's what an ingenious human, who has talents
appropriate for this field, could do.

As of those behavioral issues: *they are issues of the humans, the problem
is with the greedy, violent,* *frightened, suffering pains humans,
especially the ones who have powers and control weapons etc., who may want
to use AGI for destruction.
*

Something that I try to defend in the essay:

You don't need a universal thinking machine in order to destroy and kill.
The big humanoid terminators T-600 in the movie for example are nonsense.
It doesn't have to look like a human at all, and it could use much more
deadly and effective weapons than using two hands to hold a gun, aiming
visually, shooting etc.

British ship guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwZ3a_Kie8w&feature=player_detailpage#t=72

Russian ship guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOlVcRns5dQ

I remember a radio interview in 2001, regarding the decoding of human DNA
and that the information was published on the Internet. A journalist has
asked a scientist:

- Wasn't that too dangerous, terrorist could develop new dangerous chemical
weapons?

The scientists answered, smiling ~ :

- No, it's unlikely, there are enough natural toxins which are easy to
collect... Why dealing with genomics etc.

Another memory in this context. According to a show on some educational
channel, after the end of WWII there was a conspiracy to poison the water
of the cities in Germany, as a revenge to the Germans. They has been aiming
to kill 6 millions of Germans, and they could have done it. Hopefully a
wise man who they trusted asked them: will that return the dead ones back?

So you should be afraid of humans, as Seneka has said ~ even the lowest
slave could take away your life.
A maniac could stab you in the back, a drunk driver could hit you on the
road, etc., but the people are rather afraid of Asteroids hitting the
Earth, "The end of the world" etc. bullshit.

The human values, as elaborated more in the essay, are possible to be
applied de facto only with the assistance of technology and eventually
thinking machines.

Humans without sophisticated technology and societies to provide enough
food and other supplies and developed culture that suppress the real human
nature, are proven beasts who want to rule and kill each other. We divide
in groups and start wars, from the gangs at school bullying the weaker
ones, to the military forces and world wars.

By the way, guys, do you realize that even the "Terminator II" movie is
about how bad the humans are, but people don't get it, even though it's
told even literally in the conclusion.

Terminator II is about HUMANS being assholes and a machine that learns the
value of human life and tries to save humans for themselves and it
"self-terminates" to protect them. As even the ultimate thinking machines
hater, who lost her beloved one by a thinking machine and whose son and
herself was about to be killed by a thinking machine concludes, after
becoming emotionally attached to the "killing machine":

*"Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life,
maybe we can too."*

In the setting of the movie and the reality: humans had Cold War and USA vs
USSR and Nuclear weapons facing each other, humans were and are military
maniacs due to their fears, greed and miscommunication.

The ones who are afraid of the thinking machines should actually be more
afraid of the crazy politicians and crazy generals around the world, the
number of countries with nuclear weapons is steadily growing, and the ones
who own such weapons are increasingly dangerous.


===* Todor "Tosh" Arnaudov ===*
 *
.... Twenkid Research:*  http://research.twenkid.com

.... *Author of the world's first University courses in AGI  (2010, 2011)*:
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2010/04/universal-artificial-intelligence.html

*.... Todor Arnaudov's Researches Blog**: *
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.co <http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/>


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Todor Arnaudov <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> From:
> http://www.designweek.co.uk/news/james-dyson-award-2013-international-shortlist-announced/3037334.article
>
> "....Asked simply to ‘design something that solves a problem’, design
> students and recent graduates are competing for a £30,000 international
> winners prize that will also see £10,000 go to their institution. Regional
> winners have already been identified......"
>
> That's too easy, the true AGI, or Self Improving General Intelligence, or
> Versatile Limitless Self Improver is towards something more ambitious:
>
>
> *Something that solves *ALL* problems and that will *be capable to
> design* and complete them if given the physical resources, and also any
> other conceivable projects, and will allow human designers, artists,
> engineers - anyone - to boost their creativity and productivity to super
> human levels.*
>


>
>
> --
> ===* Todor "Tosh" Arnaudov ===*
>  *
> .... Twenkid Research:*  http://research.twenkid.com
>
> .... *Author of the world's first University courses in AGI  (2010, 2011)*
> :
> http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2010/04/universal-artificial-intelligence.html
>
> *.... Todor Arnaudov's Researches Blog**: *
> http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com
> *
> *
>



-- 
===* Todor "Tosh" Arnaudov ===*
 *
.... Twenkid Research:*  http://research.twenkid.com

.... *Author of the world's first University courses in AGI  (2010, 2011)*:
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2010/04/universal-artificial-intelligence.html

*.... Todor Arnaudov's Researches Blog**: *
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com
*
 and  an
*



-------------------------------------------
AGI
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