MA: I mean, look, solving a the captcha problem is an impressive achievement. But then you could ask, what is a capcha? ... What is the potential for captcha used in other ways?
If you don't get it, you don't get AGI, because a captcha is one basic form of the problem of AGI. AGI is creativity - really it should be ACI. The problem of creativity whether passively processing the world, or actively acting upon it, is to deal with *new,flexible, irregular transformations* of objects (incl. ideas). The letters or numbers in a captcha are new irregular transformations of letters already familiar to you. If they were regular, rigid/formulaic transformations of familiar letters, algorithms and maths would have no difficulty dealing with them. But maths, logic and algos cannot deal with new, irregular, crazy transformations. The world consists largely of new, irregular, crazy transofrmations - not the regular, neatly patterned transformations of narrow AI artificial environments. Every new field, street, person's face, body, tree, text, email, is a new, irregular, crazy transformation of already familiar fields, streets, faces, bodies,trees, texts, emails. Every rock is a new transformation of previous rocks. The real world is an endless series of captchas. Real AGI' minds have little difficulty processing the continuous new irregular transformations of the world - because they apply *ideas* to the world rather than formulae to the world - "artistic", flexible, prototypes of objects rather than scientific/mathematical, rigid protoypes. If you can only think in rigid mathematical boxes like AGI-ers, you cannot even start to entertain the flexible, "squishy" alternatives which are the secret of AGI. On 29 October 2013 20:23, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> wrote: > One of the challenges in trying to work wit AGI is to be able to > detect hype. Every time I read the news I am left half-convinced that > strong AI has been solved. Statements like: > > "at the forefront of building the first truly intelligent machines." > > I mean, look, solving a the captcha problem is an impressive > achievement. But then you could ask, what is a capcha? What does > that have to do with security? Is security a one thing like a moon or > a many thing like a set of chairs? Is there a motive for this? What > is the potential for captcha used in other ways? If you fail the test > is that an effect or a cause? What's the difference between cause and > effect? ..... and so on. > > What I need is some kind of browser add on to de-type my news. > > On 10/28/13, Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > Regardless of how well it actually works, I expect that we will see > better > > versions in the future. > > > > And I agree that modeling the retina and visual cortex is the right way > to > > do this. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:08 PM, tintner michael > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/captcha-busted/ > >> > >> [Vicarious are Dileep George, Hawkin's ex-man, no?] > >> > >> CAPTCHA creator Luis van Ahn, a computer scientist at Carnegie Mellon > >> University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, is not convinced. He sent > >> ScienceNOW this defiant message: > >> > >> "This is the 50th time somebody claims this. I don’t really get how they > >> think this is news :) > >> > >> If their program is actually a break, we can simply add more distortion > >> or > >> switch to image-based CAPTCHAs." > >> > >> And the prog. does indeed fail its first tests. > >> > >> P.S. > >> "Breaking CAPTCHA wasn’t the goal, says Phoenix. “It was just a sanity > >> check. We believe that higher level intelligences are all built on the > >> somatosensory system. So that’s why we started with vision.” The company > >> plans to hook up this visual system to robots. The benchmark then will > >> be, > >> for example, “Preparing a meal in an arbitrary kitchen.” > >> > >> The GO TO THE KITCHEN Woz Test meme is catching. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 28 October 2013 14:02, tintner michael > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2303350/google-updates-recaptcha-tool-to-beat-the-spambots > >>> > >>> > >>> On 28 October 2013 10:44, tintner michael > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > >>> > >>>> I should add that I agree to some extent with the conclusion: > >>>> > >>>> "We should be careful not to underestimate the significance of > >>>> Vicarious > >>>> crossing this milestone," adding that the company is "at the forefront > >>>> of > >>>> building the first truly intelligent machines." > >>>> > >>>> The ability to solve the problem Hofstadter identified - of > recognizing > >>>>> endlessly diversifying A fonts (the essence of the CAPTCHA problem) > - > >>>>> would constitute a major and first breakthrough towards AGI. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I will put my arse on the line, and say no algo will ever do this. A > >>>> different, new computational approach is required > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 28 October 2013 10:27, tintner michael > >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/captcha-defeated-by-computer-software_n_4168784.html > >>>>> > >>>>> [I bet it *doesn't* work remotely that well - > >>>>> > >>>>> Vicarious said its algorithm achieves success rates of 90 to 97 > >>>>> percent > >>>>> ] > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/3701026-786a0853> | > >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > >> <http://www.listbox.com> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > AGI > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > > Modify Your Subscription: > > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
