On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:47 AM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote:
> I spent some time reading the links your provided about self-organized > criticality and the use of this concept as a fundamental theory of mind. It > was very interesting but the simplicity of the idea is something that I > don't accept as a reasonable principle of mind. The active principles of > mind may one day be defined using a constrained list of methods where > complexity emerges but that does not mean that the concepts can be > accurately defined with a few principles. My point of view is that a > computer program can use the principles of referential relations as the > fundamental implementation of artificial intelligence and these might > be described using a constrained list but the conceptual references have to > have the potential of great complexity and this complexity has to be based > on the complexity of interactions between referential concepts not the > simplicity (or the relative simplicity) of the underlying principles of > representation. > Jim Bromer > Ok, I tend to agree. Notice however that self-organized criticality does seem to have the ability to explain unbound complexification. However, human minds are native to the system were cultural complexification happened, and AGIs might fact a tougher challenge because they are, in a sense, aliens that we are trying to invite into our cultural environment. So even if some simple algorithm explains a lot about the human mind, this is not necessarily sufficient to build an AGI, much less the type of AGI that we might desire. Best, Telmo. > > Jim Bromer > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Jim, >> >> This reminds me of Self-organised criticality and Per Bak's simple idea >> on how it could be applied to learning in neural networks. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organized_criticality >> >> >> https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140403-a-fundamental-theory-to-model-the-mind/ >> >> I find the simplicity of the idea very attractive. I doubt that it is >> enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up playing a central role in >> AGI. >> >> Best, >> Telmo. >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> There is a lot of evidence that humans, like other animals, learn >>> incrementally. However, my belief is that because we use ideas in different >>> ways a new idea can interact with other ideas. There are moments when >>> something that is learned incrementally can be leveraged to produce leaps >>> of insight. I call this knowledge structural because it means that an idea >>> can suddenly provide some greater structure to knowledge related to a >>> particular subject. The new increment of knowledge that triggers the >>> structural insight may or may not be the key that provides the leverage of >>> the structure. It may be that some new piece of knowledge just helps to >>> crystalize some structure in a way that helps the learner to better utilize >>> other knowledge. >>> >>> In programming and computational mathematics we find distinctions >>> between things like operators and operands and you have to be able to find >>> distinctions between other different parts of a computation if you want to >>> use mathematics creatively. However, I think it is obvious that the >>> situation is more dynamic and more fluid in thought. Some information may >>> play some role based on some other information so that it can react with >>> some other information and we just cannot categorize how some piece of >>> information might be used before hand. An AGI program has to be able to >>> find how information can work together to create greater structures of >>> knowledge. But for this to happen, the program has to be designed to >>> provide the structure that will ensure that the potential to build learned >>> structures is there. >>> Jim Bromer >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/25129130-ee4f7d55> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-f5817f28> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/25129130-ee4f7d55> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
