Funny! The new Avengers movie may well prompt some real discussion. Paul Bettany has swapped sides - what does he know that we don't?
Calum On 17 March 2015 at 16:13, Robert Levy <[email protected]> wrote: > This is probably an important discussion, independent of the event that > prompted it, but it turns out the protest at SXSW was a hoax/ viral > marketing campaign staged to promote a new dating site. > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Calum Chace via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Very well said. (And Pandora's Brain does say it, as it happens...) >> >> But the pro-AGI community also needs to convince the public that the AGI >> we'll get will be a Friendly one. >> >> Calum >> >> On 17 March 2015 at 15:56, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> A problem is that careful, balanced discussions of difficult issues are >>> boring and don't attract media attention >>> >>> Joel Pitt and I wrote a fairly thoughtful discussion of AGI safety >>> issues a few years ago, >>> >>> http://jetpress.org/v22/goertzel-pitt.htm >>> >>> but of course our thoughts are more complex and nuanced, whereas a tweet >>> from a billionaire comparing AI research to demon-summoning is a lot >>> sexier... >>> >>> IMO, to get media attention sufficient to counteract the media's love of >>> alarmism and doomsaying, the pro-AGI community would need to come >>> forward very >>> aggressively with the message that AGI is important for SAVING AND >>> IMPROVING HUMAN LIVES ... for designing the next generation of >>> medicines, for creating elder-care robots to make old age more >>> livable, for extending healthspan for those who want it, for aiding >>> the invention of new energy sources, for aiding in the fight against >>> physical and cyber terrorism, and so forth.... "Don't worry too >>> much, we'll be careful" is not a convincing counterargument -- a better >>> counterargument to the Musks, Hawkings, Bostroms and Yudkowskys of the >>> world is more like "Hey, I don't want your fear of science fiction bad >>> guys to >>> deny my grandma her life-extending, health-improving medicine and her >>> robot friend, to eliminate my future of virtually unlimited energy and >>> to put me at risk from terrorist attacks...." I.e. "DON'T LET THE >>> LUDDITES KILL YOUR GRANDMA AND TAKE YOUR TOYS AWAY!! EMBRACE AI AND >>> ROBOTS LIKE YOU'VE EMBRACED SMARTPHONES, AC POWER, THE INTERNET AND BIRTH >>> CONTROL PILLS -- AND YOUR LIFE WILL BE BETTER -- " .... >>> >>> OK I'm semi-joking ;) ;p ... but unfortunately I think it's a mistake to >>> overestimate the general public's appetite for rational, balanced >>> discussion and thinking ;p ... When careful nuanced thinking on difficult >>> issues it put out there, it tends to be vigorously ignored... >>> >>> -- Ben >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Benjamin Kapp via AGI <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If you think of governments as an artificial man (as was done by >>>> Aristotle and Hobbes amongst others) which is composed of humans who are >>>> the muscles (military, police), the intelligence (spys, scientists), the >>>> judging and planning (judges, politicians), etc.. In a way the state is a >>>> leviathan (a thing which has power to overawe any individual or group of >>>> individuals). And in this way AGI (or a super intelligence) already >>>> exists. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Calum Chace via AGI <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Basile. I agree with Pitrat, although I might dial up the >>>>> consideration of the downside possibility a touch. >>>>> >>>>> Hawking usually gets slightly mis-represented. He said that AGI could >>>>> be either the best or the worst thing ever to happen to humanity. The >>>>> "best" bit seems to get missed by both sides of the debate. >>>>> >>>>> So, my question is, what is the best way for people who think along >>>>> these lines to try and steer the public debate on AGI? Alarmism is >>>>> unhelpful, and hard to avoid. Secrecy won't work. Ben is tackling the >>>>> issue head-on (as in the video he posted just now), but it's a hard debate >>>>> to get right. >>>>> >>>>> Calum >>>>> >>>>> On 17 March 2015 at 11:17, Basile Starynkevitch < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 09:33:22AM +0100, Calum Chace via AGI wrote: >>>>>> > Steve >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I sympathise with your very understandable preference not to be >>>>>> targeted by >>>>>> > anti-AI crazies! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > What do you think is the best way to try and shape the growing >>>>>> public >>>>>> > debate about AGI? Following Bostrom's book, and the comments by >>>>>> Hawking, >>>>>> > Musk and Gates, a fair proportion of the general public is now >>>>>> aware that >>>>>> > AGI might arrive in the medium term, and that it will have a very >>>>>> big >>>>>> > impact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Some AI researchers seem to be responding by saying, "Don't worry, >>>>>> it can't >>>>>> > happen for centuries, if ever". No doubt some of them genuinely >>>>>> believe >>>>>> > that, but I wonder whether some are saying it in the (forlorn?) >>>>>> hope the >>>>>> > debate will go away. It won't. In fact I suspect that the new >>>>>> Avengers >>>>>> > movie will kick it up a level. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Others are saying, "Don't worry, AGI cannot and will not harm >>>>>> humans." To >>>>>> > my mind (and I realise I may be in a small minority here on this) >>>>>> that is >>>>>> > hard to be certain about - as Bostrom demonstrated. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Yet others are saying, "AI researcher will solve the problem long >>>>>> before >>>>>> > AGI arrives, and it's best not to worry everyone else in the >>>>>> meantime." >>>>>> > That seems a dangerous approach to me. If the public ever feels >>>>>> (rightly >>>>>> > or wrongly) that things have been hidden from them, they will react >>>>>> badly. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > But I do definitely sympathise with the desire not to be targeted by >>>>>> > crazies, or to be vilified by journalists who have half-understood >>>>>> the >>>>>> > situation! >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> >>>>>> > >> > ------------------------------------------- >>>>>> > >> > AGI >>>>>> > >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>>>> >>>>>> [....] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would suggest reading J.Pitrat's december 2014 blog entry on that >>>>>> subject. >>>>>> J.Pitrat is probably not subscribing to that list, i >>>>>> so I am blind-carbon-copying him. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://bootstrappingartificialintelligence.fr/WordPress3/2014/12/not-developing-an-advanced-artificial-intelligence-could-spell-the-end-of-the-human-race/ >>>>>> >>>>>> He is explaining that >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not developing an advanced artificial intelligence >>>>>> could spell the end of the human race" >>>>>> >>>>>> and I believe he has a point. Of course AGI researchers should be >>>>>> careful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Basile Starynkevitch http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Calum >>>>> >>>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26973278-698fd9ee> | >>>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279> | >>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>> http://goertzel.org >>> >>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >>> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress >>> depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26879140-5b8435c3> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
