Hi Dorian et. al.
I am kind of blown away by what is happening here. Maybe this thing's time 
really has come and this is what it looks like? Dunno. 

 The personal crocodiles are keeping me too distracted to do much other than 
cursory contact. And that'll keep going till the end of the week.

Manuscript matters:

All feedback gratefully accepted. It's a fair way from complete. If you don't 
mind I'd like to keep going. When I have done a story with start middle, end, 
refs then at that point I can release it into the wild of the IGI and in 
particular Dorian ... 

It's  already in .docx form. I use endnote for refs. I am assuming it will be 
formatted to a journal's preferred layout in the end. 

The next section will cover practical instances so the reader sees the hybrid 
and synth. And how it relates to analytic. I'll stick to the analytic term for 
now. I can see the formal distinction working better when in review because of 
the technical specificity. Perhaps a lighter term might suit a broader 
audience. I will go with the various needs.

The main thing I need is to learn when raw Colin starts to grate in the eyes of 
potential investors/ funders, to whom the doc is likely to be central.

Off back to crocs and writing when I can. 

Regards,
Colin Hales 






-----Original Message-----
From: "Dorian Aur" <[email protected]>
Sent: ‎25/‎05/‎2015 4:37 AM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [agi] H-AGI towards S-AGI

Colin, Ben et al


Colin: Excellent start, I feel that anyone can get  an idea about AI/AGI goals 
(2016-1956 =60 years)
Ben: Indeed a careful selection of words e.g. synthetic/abstract may help 
especially if the audience is  picky. 
Also  very good questions.We should slightly alter Colin's text and provide  
answers for every question  at the end of the manuscript -Discussion or 
Questions and Answers


Also we need to be honest. IGI has an agenda to bring together everyone and 
everything that works in AI,computer science,  neuroscience, electronics, 
nanotechnology to solve one problem - design a system that generates human like 
intelligence or better. This part  can  be probably written on the IGI webpage.


We may  like to include  Potter and other similar  labs  
http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140630/srep05489/full/srep05489.html on our 
list of  possible collaborators (list3) so I can't  reveal the issue of such 
approaches here.  The robot rat, a  nice attempt which may never work. Remember 
everyone has followed the "mob opinion". If you read 
http://www.researchgate.net/post/Place_cells_What_does_it_prove you may be able 
to get at least a part of the problem.


To fully write the paper, we may need a Word like environment, include, keep 
corrections, references.





Dorian






 



On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 6:10 AM, Benjamin Kapp <[email protected]> wrote:

When I read the ideas you have there Colin I don't feel like the ideas flow in 
a reasoned way.  It feels contrived, like you have an agenda.  It would be 
better if instead of assuming the conclusion we explored the issue without bias 
and let our empirical knowledge and rational faculties reign supreme.




1         Introduction
Here we seek to instigate a broadening of approaches to artificial general 
intelligence (AGI). Be it an artificial brain the size of a worm, ant, bee, dog 
or human, such an artificial intelligence is recognized here as a kind of AGI. 
The definition of AGI is rather important, and it would be better to state what 
our definition of AGI is rather then just give examples of things that have AGI.
The original science program coined ‘artificial intelligence’ (AI) in 1956 
{refs} set sail, at the birth of computing, with a goal to create machines that 
potentially have human level intelligence or better. 
I'm uncertain why this particular date is of great importance.  The origins of 
AI predate 1956 (see Ada lovelace for an example). 


What has actually happened since then is the application of computers to a vast 
array of technical challenges within which great successes have occurred and 
are ongoing. However, in practice AI successes fell, and continue to fall, 
within a now well recognized category called ‘narrow’ or ‘domain-bound’ AI. 

The majority of AGI research yes, but not all research.  (e.g. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0eZytv6Qk) 
Within the atmosphere of its successes, however, the original goal of 
human-level intelligence has, at least so far, evaded the energies of a huge 
investment. Such has been the prevalence of this pattern it can now be called a 
kind of syndrome and in recognition of that syndrome in recent years the 
attainment of the original goal of human level AI has taken on two main forms.
Syndrome? Seems rather harsh. Humans have always made analogies between the 
mind and the technology of their time. For Aristotle it was the mind being like 
a clay tablet, for others it was their mechanical clocks, and for us it is our 
computers. This isn't a syndrome, it is human nature. And this approach is 
being fruitful something you even admit later in this write up. And it is 
certainly something our personal experience can provide many examples of. To 
speak so harshly of this approach gives a strong negative impression in the 
mind of the reader that you aren't reasoning fairly and that you have an agenda 
to sell the reader on your approach.
 
The first approach to human level AI one of simple assumption that by attending 
to the AI ‘parts’ that the route to the AGI ‘whole’ will become apparent or 
emerge naturally. This activity, now industrialised, forms the backbone of AI 
investment at this present time. Its successes emerge almost weekly now. The 
second approach is one of a concerted direct attack on human-level AI. This is 
a recent phenomenon manifest in a comparatively small community of 
investigators, with commensurate levels of investment, who have explicitly 
coined the name of the goal: AGI. In doing so the target is explicitly 
recognised as being of a nature deserved of an integrated, holistic approach. 
This, too, is having its successes, but once again the syndrome of narrow-AI 
outcomes tends to be what the practice achieves.
Not sure if AGI is so small anymore. I think Google/deepmind/Kurzweil are in 
the process of creating AGI.

And I think China is working on AGI..
 China-Brain Project
http://www.igi-global.com/chapter/china-brain-project/46407
 
Throughout all this history one thing has been invariant: The use of the 
computer or more generally the use of models of intelligence as an instance of 
machine intelligence. This document signals the beginning of another approach: 
where the computer (model) approach is joined (to an extent to be determined) 
by its natural counterpart. This new approach, for whatever reason, is 
essentially untried and invisible to the AI community.
Is this true? How do you know? Have you surveyed  all current AGI research 
approaches?
 It was always an option. All we do here is get it off the shelf and dust it 
off as an AGI option. This paper is a vehicle for the clear expression of an 
untried approach. As such it is hoped that AI and AGI acquire a suite of ideas 
and new scientific assessment techniques that will improve AI generally as a 
science discipline based on a new kind of empirical testing. Investment in the 
approach has been zero since day one of AI. We seek here to make a case that if 
investment in this new approach was non-zero, a cost-effective dramatic shift 
may occur in our understanding of the potential kinds of machine intelligence. 
Specifically we seek to introduce the concept of synthetic and hybrid AGI.
2         Computation and AGI – a perspective on practice
To understand what follows we need to carefully compare and contrast two 
fundamentally different forms of computation. Formally their difference is best 
captured by the words analytic computation and synthetic computation. The first 
kind, analytic, is easily recognised as model-based computation. This is where, 
by whatever means chosen, an abstract model is explored by its designers. Its 
usefulness is inherent in what the computation tells us upon interpretation. 
Within the model are representations of characteristics that are being studied. 
A voltage in model may be used, for example, to represent the actual voltage of 
what is being modelled. That representation of something is not an instance of 
the original thing. Recognizable forms of analytic computation include that of 
the analog or digital computer (Turing machines). Its distinguishing feature is 
that however the computation is carried out, its meaning is ultimately inherent 
in the mental processes of a designer or in some explicit, separate document 
such as software or a circuit diagram of a model. However, complex the model 
is, it is best thought of as a description of something. The description itself 
is the analytic form. Clearly the analytic form is responsible for a dramatic 
change and technological advances in science over decades. The computer 
revolution itself.
 
The second kind of computation, synthetic, is best understood as simply the 
regularity of nature itself. Synthetic computation occurs when nature itself is 
simply regarded as computation. Synthetic computation, too, may have a 
designer. That is, the distinction between analytic and synthetic computation 
is not held up as the distinction between ‘human-made’ and ‘naturally 
occurring’. Synthetic computation is when the regularity of nature itself 
accepted as, or configured to be the computation. There may be documents needed 
to establish the initial conditions of the ‘computation’. For example, an 
engineer builds and configures the initial conditions of natural material as an 
automobile. The result is a synthetic computation called ‘the automobile’ or 
‘transport’. No documents are needed to further interpret the meaning of the 
result of the computation. Nature itself is the outcome of synthetic 
computation. Another simple example of such computation may be seen in the 
concept of flight. A bird ‘computes’ those aspects of the physics of flight 
suited to the needs of a bird. Humans have used those same synthetic 
computations (manifest in air/fight-surface interactions) to create artificial 
flight. The result is a regularity in nature accepted as a form of computation. 
Physically the result is flight. That being the case, what is ‘analytic 
flight’? We all recognise this: the flight simulator.
 
The program of future directions proposed here is one that recognises the two 
different kinds of computation in the very specialized science of the brain 
where the analytic/synthetic distinction can be shown to be under-developed and 
potentially confused. The brain is unique in that it is a synthetic object with 
a specialised role to become the natural regularity that forms the control 
system of natural organisms. It embodies the intellect of whatever creature it 
inhabits. The kinds of tasks such a control system does can and have been 
modelled to great effect in analytic approaches. The question is: “What is the 
difference, application to the brain, between the analytic and the synthetic 
approach?” Asking that question, and expecting a scientific answer, is what 
this paper is seeking.

I think analytic/synthetic as you use them could be replaced by 
abstract/material, which are words that are of far more common usage and as 
such easier to understand. 
For over half a century, approaches to creating an artificial brain have been 
entirely confined to analytic forms. These analytic approaches are explorations 
of models of the brain made by humans. That being the case, then the 
hyper-critical issue is in understanding the conditions under which the 
analytic is indistinguishable from the synthetic. If there is a difference, 
then how does that difference manifest in the capability of an AGI. For the 
brain, for these many decades, the synthetic half of the route to AGI has 
simply been neglected for a variety of reasons. The actual reasons for the 
absence of synthetic approaches to AGI is something historians can evaluate. 
The practical restoration of the synthetic approach is the goal here. The 
restoration of the synthetic approach is necessary to scientifically test the 
difference between the analytic and synthetic AGI. Whatever that difference is, 
the whole AGI enterprise has been living within a realm of that difference for 
reasons that are essentially unexplored.Scientifically evaluating the 
analytic/synthetic difference (or the lack of it) is the goal of the proposed 
shift in methodology.
If human brains are instances of synthetic AGI then it would seem that ALL 
analytic AGI research would be checked against synthetic AGI since those doing 
the research are synthetic AGI and since they are those ones reasoning as to 
whether they're AGI is functioning as expected or not.  As such the idea that 
the proposed approach is of great importance, or something that is under 
explored seems to be lacking.
In summary: The prospect of restoration of a synthetic approach to AGI is our 
topic. We look at a potential change in the direction of AGI science, and 
therefore the investment profile, where the analytic, the synthetic and their 
hybrid are formally recognised as separate and where scientific testing is then 
applied to compare and contrast their scope and effectiveness in application to 
the science of the artificial brain as AGI. In the creation of such a brain the 
approach can be
Nil% synthetic computation (entirely analytic)
or
100% synthetic computation
or
H% synthetic. A hybrid form of both.
 
That is, the inclusion of synthetic computation to some desired level becomes 
an experimental parameter. Natural brain tissue can be regarded as naturally 
occurring object based on (2) synthetic computation. In application to 
artificial brain tissue (AGI) so far, option (1) has been the only approach. 
This has achieved all of the progress in artificial intelligence to date. Here 
we suggest that the success of analytic approaches be joined by synthetic 
approac

[The entire original message is not included.]


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AGI
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