I continue to stand agog in disbelief that after 60 years, …. That the big idea about the artificial version of a natural thing (intelligence) is …. Sarcastic DER .. .. to be guided, finally, by the only actual natural original example of intelligence.
For frakking centuries, science has only ever done exactly what’s now been ‘discovered’ by computer science. FFS when is this cartoon gonna stop? :/ Colin Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Mike Archbold Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:51 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Neuroscience-Inspired AI I read the article (but not yet the paper) and, no disrespect to the researchers, it sounds like recycled arguments and suggestions from the last 5,000 posts I've read about AGI. As a side note, the kind of issues we used to talk about, formerly considered crackpot, are now the basis of runaway hype. People I know are convinced that strong AI is imminent. I don't think the field of AGI is hyped, by the way. It's more like the media and general climate of opinion. On 7/27/17, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > http://goertzel.org/Neural_Foundations_Symbolic_Thought.pdf > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 9:54 PM, EdFromNH . <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ben, could you please send me a free author's copy of the paper at >> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6889662/ . Ed Porter >> >> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Ben >>> >>> Conceptually, I like where you are going with this. Your team's work >>> with >>> human-language-based robotic communication is astounding. >>> >>> I think your idea of a universal attractor has merit. I suppose, in the >>> end, when matter exists, it generates an elcetro-magnetic field. In a >>> genetic sense, the flux of such a field would act as an open and >>> closed-loop communications network. In this sense, the relevant data, >>> information, and a relative perspective of knowledge, would all be >>> packaged >>> within relative, genomic code. In other words, we are imagining a >>> relative >>> system of relative systems from which reality would functionally emerge. >>> >>> Given my systems methodology, what remains to be done in order to >>> visualize a model of human-like machine reasoning, is to be able to link >>> your "attractor" value to the information, from which it should become >>> possible to systematically emerge any informational concept at any level >>> of >>> abstraction within any, dimension of reasoning. The genetics of >>> resultant >>> information would in theory make forward and backchaining possible, and >>> much more. >>> >>> The completeness schema of functional, attractor values seems to be a >>> critical machine-reasoning component to pursue. It would probably also >>> assume the role of a priority systems constraint. I've been doing much >>> thinking about this as a next-step for my own research. >>> >>> I think you've got this. Keep up the great work. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* 27 July 2017 04:57 AM >>> *To:* AGI >>> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Neuroscience-Inspired AI >>> >>> >>> Well I would say that none of the work done at Deep Mind and also none >>> of >>> the ideas in Demis etc.'s paper address the questions I raised in this >>> paper >>> >>> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6889662/ >>> How might the brain represent complex symbolic knowledge? - IEEE Xplore >>> Document <http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6889662/> >>> ieeexplore.ieee.org >>> A novel category of theories is proposed, providing a potential >>> explanation for the representation of complex knowledge in the human >>> (and, >>> more generally, >>> >>> >>> (sorry for the paywall ... use sci-hub.cc ...) >>> >>> So there is no real plan for how to achieve abstract symbolic reasoning >>> as needed for human level general intelligence within a purely formal-NN >>> type approach >>> >>> >>> Obviously in opencog we are taking more of a symbolic-neural approach so >>> we don't have issues with abstraction >>> >>> Also if you look at the recent Markram et al paper on algebraic topology >>> and mesoscopic brain structure, there is nothing in the Hassabis etc. >>> universe that seems to address how such structures would be learned or >>> would emerge >>> >>> >>> >>> But sure in a big-picture historical sense the progress happening these >>> days on "narrow AI verging toward AGI" and on "making complex cognitive >>> architectures finally do stuff" is super exciting. We are on the verge >>> of >>> multiple breakthroughs within the next few years. Woo hoo !! >>> >>> - -Ben >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 5:55 AM, EdFromNH . <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> About the above linked Hassabis paper, Ben said, "It's sort of a high >>>> level inspirational paper... it does lay down pretty clearly what sort >>>> of >>>> thinking and approach Deep Mind is likely to be taking in the next >>>> years >>>> ... there are no big surprises here though as this has been Demis's >>>> approach, bias and interest all along, right?" >>>> >>>> From my knowledge of several articles and videos by, or about, Hassabis >>>> -- >>>> I totally agree. But I am a little less ho-hum than Ben, perhaps >>>> because >>>> I'm not as up on the current state of AGI as Ben. >>>> >>>> Reading Hassabis's paper makes me bullish about how close we are to >>>> powerful, if not fully human-level AGI, within 5 years. >>>> >>>> Why? Because all of the unsolved challenges Hassabis discusses seem >>>> like they could be easily solved if enough engineering and programming >>>> talent was thrown at them. I feel like I could relatively easily >>>> -- within a few months -- weave plausible high level architectural >>>> descriptions for solving all of these problems, as, presumably, people >>>> like Demis and Ben could do even better. (Perhaps that is why Ben is so >>>> ho-hum about the paper.) With the money that's being thrown into AGI, >>>> and >>>> the much greater ease of doing cognitive architectural experiments made >>>> possible with Neural Turing Machines -- which allow programmable, >>>> modular >>>> plug-and-play with pre-designed and pre-trained neural net modules -- >>>> the >>>> world is going to get weird fast. >>>> >>>> Tell me why I am wrong. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:29 PM, Ed Pell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5467749/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/23/2017 4:18 PM, Giacomo Spigler wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> An Approximation of the Error Backpropagation >>>>>> Algorithm in a Predictive Coding Network >>>>>> with Local Hebbian Synaptic Plasticity >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> AGI >>>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>>> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/8630185-a57a7 >>>>> 4e1 >>>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19237892-5029d625> | >>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>> http://goertzel.org >>> >>> "I am God! I am nothing, I'm play, I am freedom, I am life. I am the >>> boundary, I am the peak." -- Alexander Scriabin >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26941503-0abb15dc> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/8630185-a57a74e1> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19237892-5029d625> | >> Modify >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "I am God! I am nothing, I'm play, I am freedom, I am life. I am the > boundary, I am the peak." -- Alexander Scriabin > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
