> Ben - > > It appears that you begin by stating the equivalent of "If the universe > continues to follow the known principles of thermodynamics, then your > statement (that long-term persistence requires goal-directed effort) is > true." For your statement to be of any interest, it must be implying > that the universe might not continue to follow the known principles of > thermodynamics. But I wonder, where is any evidence for that? > > Regarding self-organization, I suspect that the scientific community is > on the verge of acknowledging that self-organization is essentially a > fourth law of thermodynamics. We see self-organization at every level > of complexity in the universe. However, it works with the other known > principles of thermodynamics, not to their exclusion. > > Regarding goal-directed activities of an intelligent system, this > appears to be well-understood as decreasing local entropy while > increasing entropy outside the local system. What evidence is there, > that any goal-directed intelligence system within the universe can > persist without ongoing expenditure of energy?
Jef, OK... I said: "In the future, the universe might become radically different than it ever has been, due e.g. to a superintelligence restructuring it" You said: "But you have no evidence that the universe could ever become radically different..." Of course, there can never be DIRECT evidence for any such thing, right? So the best there can be is indirect evidence, i.e. abstract argumentation. Here is mine... My feeling is that the laws of thermodynamics are a reflection of the *very* finite computational capacity of the universe. This is not an original idea, it's implicit e.g. in Michel Baranger's analysis of the Second Law. I also believe that the oddities of quantum measurement can be traced to this root, see e.g. my informal thoughts in http://www.goertzel.org/papers/ChaoQM.htm So, if a superintelligence manages to create either infinite or massively-greater processing power and to bring this to bear within our universe in an effective way, perhaps chaos and entropy and wave-function collapse won't exist anymore and there will be one big trans-happy time-flowing-forwards-and-backwards continuum.... ;-) -- Ben ------- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
