Richard: Consider yourself corrected: many people realize the importance
of
generalization (and related processes).
People go about it in very different ways, so some are more specific and
up-front about it than others, but even the conventional-AI people (with
whom I have many disagreements on other matters) realize the importance of
it, and are trying to do something about it.
As for what "AGI systembuilders" are doing, you can take it from me that
my own system is deeply rooted in the concept of generalization.
Richard,
We have another of your misreadings in haste here - something of a Q.E.D.
misreading. I can do no better than requote my opening lines (please read
carefully) :
"There's a simple misreading here. No way am I
saying nobody is looking at the problem! I am saying nobody is offering a
solution! And none of the AGI systembuilders present or past have
*acknowledged* that they haven't offered a solution - otherwise they
wouldn't have made such large claims. And I am not aware of anyone even
offering an equivalent of the General Test I just offered."
Like nearly everyone else, you are indeed looking at the problem, and even
claiming again a solution, but have so far actually offered bupkes :) -
cetainly in relation to the generalization problem/ test. And until you do,
it remains to be seen whether you are even actually addressing the problem.
I am suggesting - and I shall be delighted to eat my words - that this is
the central one of what Mark Waser identified as the unacknowledged,
"a-miracle-will-happen-here" holes in not just Ben's but everyone's project
plans. And indeed it is also the central reason why as Wozniak, pace Storrs
Hall, more or less identified - computers & AGI's and, to some extent,
robots are "Tommy's" (and then some) - deaf, dumb and blind quadriplegics,
who while they may be extraordinary autistic savants, are still unable to
deal with the real world.
Perhaps better to wait for my next post before replying.
Mike Tintner wrote:
Benjamin:When I read your
post, claiming that generalization is important, I think to myself
"yeah, that is what everybody else is saying and attempting to solve --
I even gave you several examples of how generalization could work", so I
then find myself surprised that you claim that nobody is looking at it!
Quick response for now. There's a simple misreading here. No way am I
saying nobody is looking at the problem! I am saying nobody is offering a
solution! And none of the AGI systembuilders present or past have
*acknowledged* that they haven't offered a solution - otherwise they
wouldn't have made such large claims. And I am not aware of anyone even
offering an equivalent of the General Test I just offered. Yeah, it's an
incredibly obvious test - almost a redefinition (although just a little
more, too) of "Artificial GENERAL Intelligence." But you'd be amazed how
often people ignore the obvious. Look also at how strenuously Ben
objected when I suggested that his definition of intelligence as
"achieving *complex* goals in complex environments" should be replaced by
one focussing on the *general* aspect (for AGI), which is what he really
seemed to mean in one passage, (although in another text of his, the
general aspect simply gets lost).
I do believe though - and I stand to be corrected - that nobody has fully
identified the central importance of this problem - i.e. I agree with
Joseph Gentle's:
"I think making a representation of the world which can be generalised
and abstracted is the emergent crux of AGI".
Consider yourself corrected: many people realize the importance of
generalization (and related processes).
People go about it in very different ways, so some are more specific and
up-front about it than others, but even the conventional-AI people (with
whom I have many disagreements on other matters) realize the importance of
it, and are trying to do something about it.
As for what "AGI systembuilders" are doing, you can take it from me that
my own system is deeply rooted in the concept of generalization.
Richard Loosemore
Yes, it's still *emerging* AFAIK. If you want to correct me here, though,
you'll have to quote some literature.
Yes, I'm developing & will set out a much larger argument here - later
today/tomorrow. When I do, I think you'll see why people are, however
subtly, avoiding the problem, .[BTW I will want to attach a photo file -
can one do that?]
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