Wow! The civility level on this list is really bottoming out . . . . along
with any sort of scientific grounding.
I have to agree with both Valentina and Richard . . . . since they are
supported by scientific results while others are merely speculating without
basis.
Experimental (imaging) evidence shows that known words will strongly
activate some set of neurons when heard. Unknown words with recognizable
parts/features will also activate some other set of neurons when heard,
possibly allowing the individual to puzzle out the meaning even if the word
has never been heard before. Totally unknown words will not strongly
activate any neurons -- except subsequently (i.e. on a delay) some set of
HUH? neurons.
If you wish, you can consider this to be an analogue of a massively parallel
search carried out by the subconscious but it's really just an automatic
operation. Recognized word == activated neurons bringing it's meaning
forward through spreading activation. Totally unrecognized word == no
activated neurons which is then interpreted as I don't know this word.
Ed's response (which you praised), while a nice fanciful story that might
work in another universe, is *not* supported by any evidence and is
contra-indicated by a reasonable amount of experimental evidence.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] How do we know we don't know?
Valentina,
Well, the "LOL" is on you.
Richard failed to add anything new to the two previous responses that each
posited linguistic surface feature analysis as being responsible for
generate the "feeling of not knowing" with that *particular* (and,
admittedly poorly-chosen) example query. This mechanism will, however,
apply to only a very tiny number of cases.
In response to those first two replies (not including Richard's), I
apologized for the sloppy example and offered a new one. Please read the
entire thread and the new example. I think you'll find Richard's and your
explanation will fail to address how the new example might generate the
"feeling of not knowing."
Cheers,
Brad
Valentina Poletti wrote:
lol.. well said richard.
the stimuli simply invokes no signiticant response and thus our brain
concludes that we 'don't know'. that's why it takes no effort to realize
it. agi algorithms should be built in a similar way, rather than
searching.
Isn't this a bit of a no-brainer? Why would the human brain need to
keep lists of things it did not know, when it can simply break the
word down into components, then have mechanisms that watch for the
rate at which candidate lexical items become activated .... when
this mechanism notices that the rate of activation is well below
the usual threshold, it is a fairly simple thing for it to announce
that the item is not known.
Keeping lists of "things not known" is wildly, outrageously
impossible, for any system! Would we really expect that the word
"ikrwfheuigjsjboweonwjebgowinwkjbcewijcniwecwoicmuwbpiwjdncwjkdncowk-
owejwenowuycgxnjwiiweudnpwieudnwheudxiweidhuxehwuixwefgyjsdhxeiowudx-
hwieuhyxweipudxhnweduiweodiuweydnxiweudhcnhweduweiducyenwhuwiepixuwe-
dpiuwezpiweudnzpwieumzweuipweiuzmwepoidumw" is represented somewhere
as a "word that I do not know"? :-)
I note that even in the simplest word-recognition neural nets that I
built and studied in the 1990s, activation of a nonword proceeded in
a very different way than activation of a word: it would have been
easy to build something to trigger a "this is a nonword" neuron.
Is there some type of AI formalism where nonword recognition would
be problematic?
Richard Loosemore
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