James,
Someone ventured the *opinion* that keeping such a list of "things I don't know"
was "nonsensical," but I have yet to see any evidence or well-reasoned argument
backing that opinion. So, it's just an opinion. One with which I, obviously,
do not agree.
There are two "stages" of "not knowing." The first is when the agent doesn't
know it doesn't know something. It's clueless. This can be such a dangerous
stage to be in that one can imagine the agent might be equipped with a
"knee-jerk" type reaction, which evinces itself in a variety of ways. One of
those ways could be to promote this thing it didn't know it didn't know to the
next stage of "not knowing" by storing it (subconsciously, most likely) in a
list of "things I know I don't know." I use the term "list" generically. I
don't argue that the human brain maintains knowledge in list structures or that
this would necessarily be the way this information is stored in an AGI agent).
I fail to see how saving this type of information in memory is any different
from saving any other type of information. It's a positive fact about the world
as that world relates to the individual human (or AGI agent). The first way
having such a list might help is in optimizing memory search. The next time the
agent encounters a thing not known on this list, it won't have to perform an
exhaustive search of things it knows to come to the "feeling of not knowing."
It's right there on the (comparatively short) list of things it doesn't know
(which would be searched first, of course). In addition, if the agent's
experience in the world results in repeated hits on a particular item in this
list, this could be a factor in producing the desire to learn that is such a
characteristic behavior of our species. Once the thing is known, it is, of
course, removed from the "not known" list. If a thing on the list is not
encountered again for a long period of time, it might just fall off the list.
Both of these characteristics of such a list would work, subconsciously, to keep
the list both small and relevant.
Cheers,
Brad
James Ratcliff wrote:
Sure,
search is at the root of all processing, be it human or AI.
How we each go about the search, and how efficient we are at the task
are different, and what exactly we are searching for, and exponential
explosion.
But some type of search is done, whether we are consciously aware of our
brains doing the search or not.
Given a bit of context information about the question should allow us to
use some heuristics to look at a smaller area of knowledge bases in our
brains, or in a computer's memory.
Having a list of "things we dont know" is nonsensical as has been
pointed out, when it comes to individual terms, but something like a
aggregate estimate of knowledge known could be computed.
I myself know a little about baseball .... say 10%, but baseball history
and world series statistics would be more like 0.1%
James Ratcliff
--- On *Tue, 7/29/08, Brad Paulsen /<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
James,
So, you agree that some sort of search must take place before the "feeling
of not knowing" presents itself? Of course, "realizing we don't
have a lot of information" results from some type of a search and not a
separate process
(at least you didn't posit any).
Thanks for your comments!
Cheers
Brad
James Ratcliff wrote:
> It is fairly simple at that point, we have enough context to have a very
> limited domain
> world series - baseball
> 1924
> answer is a team,
> so we can do a lookup in our database easily enough, or realize that we
> really dont have a lot of information about baseball in our mindset.
>
> And for the other one, it would just be a
strait term match.
>
> James Ratcliff
>
> _______________________________________
> James Ratcliff - http://falazar.com
> Looking for something...
>
> --- On *Mon, 7/28/08, Brad Paulsen /<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/*
wrote:
>
> From: Brad Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [agi] How do we know we don't know?
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:12 PM
>
> Jim Bromer wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Brad Paulsen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> All,
> >> What does fomlepung mean?
> >>
> >> If your immediate (mental) response was "I don't
know."
> it means you're not
> >> a slang-slinging Norwegian. But, how did your brain produce
that
>
"feeling
> >> of not knowing"? And, how did it produce that feeling
so fast?
> >>
> >> Your brain may have been able to do a massively-parallel
search of
> your
> >> entire memory and
> come up "empty." But, if it does this,
> it's subconscious.
> >> No one to whom I've presented the above question has
reported a
> conscious
> >> "feeling of searching" before having the conscious
feeling
> of not knowing.
> >>
> >> Brad
> >
> > My guess that initial recognition must be based on the surface
> > features of an input. If this is true, then that could suggest
that
> > our initial recognition reactions are stimulated by distinct
> > components (or distinct groupings of components) that are
found
in the
> > surface input data.
> > Jim Bromer
> >
> >
> Hmmm. That particular query may not have been the best example since,
to a
> non-Norwegian speaker, the phonological surface feature of that
statement alone
>
> could account for the "feeling of not knowing." In other
words, the
> word
> "fomlepung" just "doesn't sound right." Good
point.
> But, that may only
> explain
> how we know we don't know "strange sounding" words.
>
> Let's try another example:
>
> Which team won the 1924 World Series?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brad
>
> > -------------------------------------------
> > agi
> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
> > RSS Feed:
https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/
> > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;
> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> agi
> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/
> Modify Your Subscription:
> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;
> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now>
> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | Modify
> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>
> Your Subscription [Powered by Listbox]
<http://www.listbox.com>
>
-------------------------------------------
agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/
Modify Your Subscription:
https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now>
<https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | Modify
<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>
Your Subscription [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com>
-------------------------------------------
agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/
Modify Your Subscription:
https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
