Further explanation needed.... more below inline.
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, Harry Chesley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Harry Chesley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [agi] Groundless reasoning To: [email protected] Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 9:16 PM Vladimir Nesov wrote: > It's too fuzzy an argument. You're right, of course. I'm not being precise, and though I'll try to improve on that here, I probably still won't be. But here's my attempt: There are essentially three types of grounding: embodiment, hierarchy base nodes, and pattern/data sources. Embodiment: I don't think AIs need to have a connection to a real or simulated environment. Yes, we get a lot of our information that way, and yes, human meaning/understanding probably evolved out of that connection initially. But no, AI doesn't require it to do useful thinking. > Every AGI, but the truly most simple AI must run in a simulated environment > of some sort. They need to receive information and react to it, and that is done is some kind of environment. The larger the environment, the more options for an AGI to interact. A question answer AI could in theory answer questions with a limited input output environment, but is that truly considered an AGI? An AGI I would think would need to internally model test environments and scenarios to try and create potential solutions in addition to its own acting environment. A small AI would need to interact with the world to be truly useful, even if just to be able to go outside its computer and order food for a household to be delivered. Hierarchy base nodes: I don't think a hierarchy of concepts or a semantic network need to have a set of base nodes that connect to something outside the system ("primitives"). Meaning arises out of the network of connections, and doesn't need some basic unit of meaningful nodes. > How do you mean this? There must be structure to its internal information nodes, some level of hierarchy for storage and usage correct? Many and most nodes will contain base nodes such as color or weight or position. How can a network be created without these? The AGI may not have direct experential sampling of these concepts thru an input device, but the concepts must still be there. Data sources: But there is one sense in which a system must be grounded to provide useful results for the real world. The connections between concepts, and the statistics regarding those connections need to come from the real world. A dictionary is circular, but the connections between the nodes are set based on corresponding connections in the external world. Or to put that another way, you can't reason about something you have no data about. > This seems to contradict the second notion. It was the first two senses that I meant when I said an AI doesn't need to be grounded. P.S. You can think of embodiment as being an example of hierarchy base nodes; or you can think of it as a data source. In the latter case, it can be useful (as other have pointed out on the list), but isn't necessary. > As soon as you have an AGI that is planning for something, say a meeting, and is considering the possible availability of participants of the meeting, and choosing a meeting to to hold it in, it begins interacting in an environment. You may be arguing against an AGI requiring to be embodied in a robot, or requiring a full simulated art. reality, but when you consider that as well, it opens up the amount of options available to an AGI. Not only can it reason and give back information, but it can directly act, in a much more human like way. This will allow it to learn and explore differently than just a simple text AGI. James ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
