I have never posted to the list before for exactly the reasons under
discussion. It seems to me that the list is dominated, in terms of
volume, not, I think, in terms of people, by two types of posts: 1) You
don't understand theory x, which explains why your idea or approach is
unworkable; you need to spend hours (perhaps days) reading about that
(my) theory. Or 2) You're an idiot and your ideas are trash.
I am pursuing a line of research that I believe has potential. It would
be useful to have a place I could float ideas and get some feedback.
While I'm not particularly thin skinned, I don't have the time to deal
with excursions into entirely different theories or to deal with the
distractive emotional baggage that's so common here. I would also be
happy to provide feedback to posts by others, but I don't want to get
dragged into heated and often content-sparse threads of discussion.
I have seen very good and productive threads on this list, but they tend
to be the exception. Hence I mostly just delete the items from the list,
and follow the occasional thread that looks interesting or involves
people who have posted more reasonable items in the past. As with most
lists, 90% of the content is generated by 10% of the members. In this
case, that involves much unnecessary distraction and unpleasantness.
Giving posters "time out"s for personal attacks might go a long way
toward calming the list down and encouraging some of the people like me
to become more involved. Also, a list FAQ that includes pointers to some
of the theories that get repeated endlessly, together with encouragement
to the posters to just post the FAQ's URL rather than repeating the
entire theory, might reduce the repetition. (Wasn't there a wiki area
exactly for that started a while ago?)
Anyway, that's my two cents.
On 8/3/2008 6:13 AM, Ben Goertzel wrote:
Hi,
Here are a couple random responses to suggestions by others within
this thread...
Nesov wrote, and Mark Waser concurred:
"
I don't notice rudeness so much, but content-free posts (and posters
who don't learn) are a problem on this list. Low signal-to-noise
ratio. I'd say you are too tolerant in avoiding moderation, but
moderation is needed for content, not just "politeness".
"
My response is that
-- Moderation for politeness, and for *form* of posts, is fairly easy
to do in an objective way
-- Moderation for content is a lot more subjective, and I don't want
to be perceived as imposing my own particular views on AGI on this
mailing list. So I'm a bit wary of this.
Hector suggested
"
What about also some minimal credentials (not necessarily academical
achievements but a minimal proof of knowledge and logical thought) as
it is required at other mailing lists...
"
However, it seems to me that the most boring, repetitive and
irritating conversations on this list generally involve individuals
who *do* have "above minimal credentials" in AGI.
The only exception I can think of would be some of the repetitive
conversations involving Mike Tintner, who isn't professionally
experienced in AGI or directly related fields of science so far as I
know (though I could be wrong)
I do think that this list has recently become dominated by long,
somewhat repetitive arguments between a relatively small number of
people. I myself have stopped reading or posting very much partly
because of this, even though I'm the list administrator...
Ben
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Mark Waser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
I don't notice rudeness so much, but content-free posts (and
posters
who don't learn) are a problem on this list. Low signal-to-noise
ratio. I'd say you are too tolerant in avoiding moderation, but
moderation is needed for content, not just "politeness".
Normally I try to avoid "me too" posts -- but for those who felt
my last e-mail was too long, this is the essence of my argument
(and very well expressed).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladimir Nesov"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] META: do we need a stronger "politeness code"
on this list?
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
I think Ed's email was a bit harsh, but not as harsh as
many of Richard's
(which are frequently full of language like "fools",
"rubbish" and so forth
...).
Some of your emails have been pretty harsh in the past too.
I would be willing to enforce a stronger code of
politeness on this list if
that is what the membership wants. I have been told
before, in other
contexts, that I tend to be overly tolerant of rude behavior.
Anyone else have an opinion on this?
I don't notice rudeness so much, but content-free posts (and
posters
who don't learn) are a problem on this list. Low signal-to-noise
ratio. I'd say you are too tolerant in avoiding moderation, but
moderation is needed for content, not just "politeness".
--
Vladimir Nesov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://causalityrelay.wordpress.com/
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--
Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be
first overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson
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