Nice post. I'm not sure language is separable from any kind of intelligence we can meaningfully interact with.
It's important to note (at least) two ways of talking about language: 1. specific aspects of language - what someone building an NLP module is focused on (e.g. the rules of English grammar and such). 2. the process of language - the expression of the internal state in some outward form in such a way that conveys shared meaning. If we conceptualize language as in #2, we can be talking about a great many human activities besides conversing: playing chess, playing music, programming computers, dancing, and so on. And in each example listed there is a learning curve that goes from pure novice to halting sufficiency to masterful fluency, just like learning a language. So *specific* forms of language (including the non-linguistic) are not in themselves important to intelligence (perhaps this is Matthias' point?), but the process of outwardly expressing meaning is fundamental to any social intelligence. Terren --- On Sat, 10/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: AW: [agi] Re: Defining AGI > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 12:02 PM > Matthias wrote: > > > There is no big depth in the language. There is only > depth in the > > information (i.e. patterns) which is transferred using > the language. > > This is a claim with which I obviously disagree. I imagine > linguists > would have trouble with it, as well. > > And goes on to conclude: > > Therefore I think, the ways towards AGI mainly by > studying language > > understanding will be very long and possibly always go > in a dead end. > > It seems similar to my point, too. That's really what > I see as a > definition of AI-complete as well. If you had something > that could > understand language, it would have to be able to do > everything that a full > intelligence would do. It seems there is a claim here that > one could have > something that understands language but doesn't have > anything else > underneath it. Or maybe that language could just be > something separated > away from some real intelligence lying underneath, and so > studying just > that would be limiting. And that is a possibility. There > are certainly > specific "language modules" that people have to > assist them with their use > of language, but it does seem like intelligence is more > integrated with > it. > > And somebody suggested that it sounds like Matthias has > some kind of > mentalese hidden down in there. That spoken and written > language is not > interesting because it is just a rearrangement of whatever > internal > representation system we have. That is a fairly bold > claim, and has > logical problems like a homunculus. It is natural for a > computer person > to think that mental things can be modifiable and > transmittable strings, > but it would be hard to see how that would work with > people. > > Also, I get a whole sense that Matthias is thinking there > might be some > small general domain where we can find a shortcut to AGI. > No way. > Natural language will be a long, hard road. Any path going > to a general > intelligence will be a long, hard road. I would guess. It > still happens > regularly that people will say they're cooking up the > special sauce, but I > have seen that way too many times. > > Maybe I'm being too negative. Ben is trying to push > this list to being > more positive with discussions about successful areas of > development. It > certainly would be nice to have some domains where we can > explore general > mechanism. I guess the problem a see with just math as a > domain is that > the material could get too narrow a focus. If we want > generality in > intelligence, I think it is helpful to be able to have a > possibility that > some bit of knowledge or skill from one domain could be > tried in a > different area, and it is my claim that general language > use is one of the > few areas where that happens. > > > andi > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
