Ben,
I should explain "rationality" - I mean it technically to cover (principally
formal) language, logic and maths, including geometry. These are all the
sign systems (inherited from the Greeks) which convert the world into more
or less hard-edged, more or less abstract boxes - words, numbers, and
geometrical figures. Boxes which are "ratio-nal" - capable of precise,
measured comparison or ratios. (Hence "irrational" numbers). These are also
the systems of the book.
Imagination here means all the image systems of the arts - such as
movies,tv and all the dramatic arts, records, radio, painting sculpture
tc - which reflect the world at a concrete level, before rationality
converts it. (In terms of the economy, BTW, "imaginative intelligence"
workers - designers, artists, admen etc. etc - may well be as
significant/numerous as "rational intelligence" workers.In terms of our high
culture, artists may also be as numerous as scientists and technologists).
Actual general intelligence in humans and animals is indisputably
continuously "screen-based." You can have conscious intelligence without
language, logic or maths. You can't have it without a "screen" - the
continuous movie of consciousness. And that screen is not just vision but
sound.
(Evolution IOW knows something about intelligence that you don't).
Of course, the screen in "screen-based" is strictly a limited, metaphoric
model, if an extremely useful and now essential one. Actual human/animal
consciousness is much more complex still, involving the other senses, and
being, in a sense, solid and distributed over a large space, as opposed to
concentrated on a flat surface.
If you're smart, I suggest, you'll acknowledge the truth here, which is
that you know next to nothing about imaginative intelligence, (as indeed
does our culture) - hardly appropriate if you're claiming to be interested
in "general" intelligence - and, as the Kelly article indicates, it's time
to start learning, fast.
Ben:
Yes, but "rationality without imagination and creativity" is just a
bogus "straw man" construct ... certainly, it is never what I mean
when I talk about "rationality" ...
Obsession with visual images is a whole other issue, though. It seems
very obvious that an AI or alien organism with no visual perception
could be massively intelligent and creative, potentially more so than
humans. Vision is merely one particular way of sensing and internally
modeling portions of the physical world.
ben
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
You'll remember that I've been saying this for quite a while - now Kevin
Kelly is saying it - and you'll be hearing a lot more of this
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/magazine/23wwln-future-t.html?_r=2&sq=KEVIN%20KELLY&st=cse&scp=1&pagewanted=all
"Intelligence" that is rationality without imagination, symbol
manipulation
without image manipulation, basically paper-based rather than
screen-based
(or "consciousness"-based), isn't intelligence at all.
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agi
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--
Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The empires of the future are the empires of the mind."
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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agi
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agi
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