We could change the Boo Lien switches to some serious requirement instead of just "something scary" so that zombies actually are costly to hold on to.
On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:58 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Reuben Staley wrote: >> I think Corona was talking about the thing where Agora would get all the >> money that people spent and distribute it tbuno the poorest players. That was >> under the proportional economy where only 1000 shinies could exist. >> >> I think if we were to reimplement that system, it would be too easy to >> scam, with zombies and contracts and whatnot, so I'm not sold just yet. If >> another proposal comes forth proposing a different way of filtering assets >> back into the economy, I might be willing to support it. > > The issue I had with that system is you couldn't distinguish "poor because > I don't have an income source/others are always ahead" from "poor because I > had a bunch of money and just now spent it." If you award the latter it > leads to weird incentive systems to either hold everything or spend > everything but not to stay in between. > > In "game-balancing" here, there's two separate issues to think about: > > 1. Can someone get enough possessions to participate on a basic level on a > regular basis? (e.g. by pending proposals, walking around the map, and > other fixed-cost things to buy). For this, monthly salary takes care of it > (more or less), secondarily land production. This was what redistribution > was supposed to accomplish when salaries and land production didn't exist, > but now that we have salaries that's fine (if it's not enough, just increase > salary rather than adding a separate mechanism). > > 2. Is someone so far behind they can never be competitive in auctions? > This is the bigger issue, if zombie-owners always earn at 2x the rate they > will always outbid and raise prices. This is multiplicative - the more > auctions they win, the more they get and so on so early leads build into big > ones. Redistribution won't help that unless you redistribute so much that > it wipes out all leads (if it does that, why would anyone bother to play the > subgame?) > > There are ways to address both, but I don't think redistributing to poorest > players addresses either? > > > >> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:04 Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > That's what monthly salary is right? >> > >> > Problem of course is that applies to zombies too - excluding zombies from >> > salary would balance though of course would devalue zombies. >> > >> > I was really surprised that the zombie auction prices were so low. In the >> > current system, the ability to occupy multiple land units/move in multiple >> > directions and place multiple bids in auctions is huge (that wasn't planned >> > on my part when I made zombies - I was pretty much thinking of them as a >> > way to get an extra vote or two). >> > >> > On the flip side, zombies are a precarious investment because you can lose >> > them at any time. >> > >> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Corona wrote: >> > > Well, it would be good IMO if something like the now repealed >> > > redistribution of Agora's money to the poor was enacted. >> > > >> > > On Wednesday, April 11, 2018, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > I'm starting to think I've opened a proverbial Pandora's Box of sorts >> > and >> > > > that the map and zombie mechanics are going to spiral out of control to >> > > > create some ultra-capitalist society in the future. Oh well. >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 07:33 ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Actually I believe this failed, as I tried to move from black to >> > white >> > > > > by spending only one apple. >> > > > > >> > > > > If I am still currently standing at (-1, +1) then I spend 2 apples to >> > > > > move to (-1, 0) and another to move to (-1, -1). >> > > > > I then transfer all of the assets from the facility where I am >> > standing >> > > > > to me. >> > > > > >> > > > > On 4/11/2018 9:27 AM, ATMunn wrote: >> > > > > > I transfer all of the assets where I am standing to me. >> > > > > > I spend 1 apple to move to (-1, 0) and then another to move to (-1, >> > > > -1). >> > > > > > I then transfer all of the assets where I am standing to me. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I also act on Nichdel's behalf to transfer all of eir assets to me. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On 4/11/2018 2:22 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: >> > > > > >> THE MAP OF ARCADIA -- APRIL 2, 2018 >> > > > > >> View an interactive version of this report here: >> > > > > >> https://agoranomic.org/Cartographor/maps/map-2018-04-11.html >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> LAND TYPE MAP >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> LONGITUDE >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> - - >> > > > > >> 6 ************* 6 >> > > > > >> 5 ************* 5 aether (*) >> > > > > >> 4 ************* 4 (b)lack >> > > > > >> L 3 ************* 3 (w)hite >> > > > > >> A 2 ************* 2 >> > > > > >> T 1 ****wwwbb**** 1 >> > > > > >> I 0 ****wwbbb**** 0 >> > > > > >> T 1 ****wwbbbw*** 1 >> > > > > >> U 2 ******bwb**** 2 >> > > > > >> D 3 ************* 3 >> > > > > >> E 4 ************* 4 >> > > > > >> 5 ************* 5 >> > > > > >> 6 ************* 6 >> > > > > >> + + >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> OWNERSHIP MAP >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> LONGITUDE >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> - - >> > > > > >> 6 ************* 6 >> > > > > >> 5 ************* 5 Agora, Aether (*) >> > > > > >> 4 ************* 4 Agora, Non-Aether (.) >> > > > > >> L 3 ************* 3 (G)aelan >> > > > > >> A 2 ************* 2 (K)enyon >> > > > > >> T 1 ****G...K**** 1 (T)rigon >> > > > > >> I 0 ****T...C**** 0 (C)orona >> > > > > >> T 1 ****C.....*** 1 >> > > > > >> U 2 ******...**** 2 >> > > > > >> D 3 ************* 3 >> > > > > >> E 4 ************* 4 >> > > > > >> 5 ************* 5 >> > > > > >> 6 ************* 6 >> > > > > >> + + >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> PRESERVATION MAP >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> LONGITUDE >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> - - >> > > > > >> 6 fffffffffffff 6 >> > > > > >> 5 fffffffffffff 5 (t)rue >> > > > > >> 4 fffffffffffff 4 (f)alse >> > > > > >> L 3 fffffffffffff 3 >> > > > > >> A 2 fffffffffffff 2 >> > > > > >> T 1 ffffftttfffff 1 >> > > > > >> I 0 ffffftttfffff 0 >> > > > > >> T 1 ffffftttfffff 1 >> > > > > >> U 2 fffffffffffff 2 >> > > > > >> D 3 fffffffffffff 3 >> > > > > >> E 4 fffffffffffff 4 >> > > > > >> 5 fffffffffffff 5 >> > > > > >> 6 fffffffffffff 6 >> > > > > >> + + >> > > > > >> - 6543210123456 + >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> FACILITIES >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> (-1, -1): Preserved Rank 1 Mine, owned by Agora >> > > > > >> Assets: 3 stones, 2 ore >> > > > > >> (-1, +1): Preserved Rank 1 Orchard, owned by Agora >> > > > > >> Assets: 3 apples, 3 lumber >> > > > > >> (+1, -1): Preserved Rank 1 Farm, owned by Agora >> > > > > >> Assets: 3 corn, 3 cotton >> > > > > >> (+1, +1): Preserved Rank 1 Mine, owned by Agora >> > > > > >> Assets: 3 stones, 2 ore >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> LOCATIONS OF ENTITIES >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Player Last report This Report >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------- >> > > > > >> omd ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> o ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Aris (-1, -1) (-1, -1) >> > > > > >> DFF[1] ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Quazie ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> P.S.S.[2] ( 0, 0) (-1, -1) >> > > > > >> Gaelan ( 0, 0) (-1, -1) >> > > > > >> nichdel ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> G. ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Cuddlebeam (-1, -1) (-1, -1) >> > > > > >> Trigon ( 0, 0) (+1, +2) >> > > > > >> Telnaior ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Corona ( 0, 0) (+1, +1) >> > > > > >> pokes ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Murphy ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> VJ Rada ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> Kenyon (-1, +1) (-1, +1) >> > > > > >> ATMunn (-1, +1) (-1, +1) >> > > > > >> Ouri ( 0, 0) ( 0, 0) >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> [1]: In Full, 天火狐 >> > > > > >> [2]: In Full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> ALTERNATING LAND TYPE >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> The alternating land type has been switched 4 times. >> > > > > >> The current value is Black. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> CHANGES IN LAND TYPE AND OWNERSHIP >> > > > > >> ============================================================ >> > > > ============ >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Date Unit From To >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------- >> > > > > >> 2018-04-09 (-1, +2) Agora Kenyon >> > > > > >> 2018-04-09 ( 0, -2) Agora Trigon >> > > > > >> 2018-04-09 (+1, -2) Agora Corona >> > > > > >> 2018-04-09 ( 0, +2) Agora Corona >> > > > > >> 2018-04-10 (-1, -2) Agora Gaelan >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > ¯Corona >> > > >> > >> -- >From V.J. Rada
