hi, by 'execute and then inform', i meant that you delay the informing for as long as possible, based on your subjective situation. for me, it was possible to leave the house when my parents were not watching, and then inform them that I'm going alone. after some point their grip became even looser and I could tell them after i returned home, that I had been alone. but of course that will vary from case to case. if you don't wish to be too radical, just delay the information until you absolutely can't.
another thing you could try, is to let them accompany you, but from a distance. without physically helping you for a few days in places where you're absolutely confident of facing no issues. you could tell them that coming with you is their desire, not yours, and if they wish to continue doing so, they can do it at a distance, because you need to learn to navigate on your own. so no physical contact, no conversation. and this way, both of you can have your way. and you can hope that after sometime they'd realise the pointlessness of such a commute every day. I know all these sound drastic and a bit unreasonable even. but I'm only sharing them because all of these have worked for me. that may be an exception. but putting these out there does no harm. apologies if none of them sound doable. but thanx all the same, for raising the question, will keep thinking. Shireen. On 8/5/17, Shireen Irani <shireen....@gmail.com> wrote: > hi, > > by 'execute and then inform', i meant that you delay the informing for > as long as possible, based on your subjective situation. for me, it > was possible to leave the house when my parents were not watching, and > then inform them that I'm going alone. after some point their grip > became even looser and I could tell them after i returned home, that I > had been alone. but of course that will vary from case to case. if you > don't wish to be too radical, just delay the information until you > absolutely can't. > > another thing you could try, is to let them accompany you, but from a > distance. without physically helping you for a few days in places > where you're absolutely confident of facing no issues. you could tell > them that coming with you is their desire, not yours, and if they wish > to continue doing so, they can do it at a distance, because you need > to learn to navigate on your own. so no physical contact, no > conversation. and this way, both of you can have your way. and you > can hope that after sometime they'd realise the pointlessness of such > a commute every day. > > I know all these sound drastic and a bit unreasonable even. but I'm > only sharing them because all of these have worked for me. that may be > an exception. but putting these out there does no harm. apologies if > none of them sound doable. > but thanx all the same, for raising the question, will keep thinking. > Shireen. > > > On 8/5/17, Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj10...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Thanks again. >> Geetha, I agree with you that absolute independence is undesirable, but >> what >> we are talking here about is reasonable independence. When offered the >> possibility of travelling with a friend, the parent says that friends are >> likely to abandon you in case any problem arises. Only family members or >> servants can be trusted. >> When asked to seek advice and support from orgs like Enable India, the >> parent says that those support systems exist for those who cannot afford >> personal servants. They are of no use to someone who can afford personal >> helpers. >> >> The approach outlined by Shireen, though difficult, then remains the only >> solution. Shireen, if one wants to travel alone/with a friend, and one is >> living with one parent who will inform the unreasonable parent about >> everything, how can one adopt the strategy of executing and then >> informing? >> >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Shireen Irani via Ai >>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote: >>> >>> hi Rahul, >>> >>> most of what i wish to say has been said already, but I'd like to >>> reiterate a couple of things that i think are imperative, regardless >>> of the temporary discomfort they may cause in the relationship. >>> >>> as an adult, whether disabled or not, 1 needs to put one's foot down, >>> and have the free will to decide one's own actions with total >>> responsibility for them. parents often find that difficult to accept, >>> partly for control, and partly because of their fear of being of no >>> need to the child any more. so if there's no room for a calm >>> conversation, one can make one's decisions and break it to them >>> immediately before, or after you start executing it. even the language >>> you use needs to be assertive and firm, reassuring them that you do >>> love and respect them, but these are a few things that you will not >>> allow them to control, because they are now yours to take charge of. >>> this is also when you ask them: what they think you will do, once >>> they're not around any more to protect you from the big bad world. we >>> know of countless stories of parents who threaten to harm themselves >>> in cases of their children marrying against the parents wishes, but >>> after a few months it all defuses and the family is 1 again. so >>> particularly with emotional blackmail, I know it sounds unpleasant, >>> but it is best to assert, that you will not be deterred by any such >>> threats. >>> the way to balance things out could be to show them that you'd love >>> their intervention in certain areas, but not in a few others. >>> >>> also, it really does help even if in tiny ways, for them to see other >>> blind people moving around more independently. so wherever possible, >>> do invite a friend over, introduce them to your parents, and then >>> perhaps spontaneously decide to venture out on your own, the 2 of you, >>> without opportunity for any further discussion on the matter. >>> finally, I think financial independence, and your ability to manage >>> your own finances without their help, and also contributing towards >>> the running of the house, usually goes a long way as a sign of your >>> independent adulthood. if you can politely deny any1 else's help/ >>> control in financial matters, and then prove your efficiency with wise >>> money management, then it becomes relatively easier to assert your >>> independence in other areas. >>> of course your own confidence and ability is paramount before you take >>> such steps. >>> >>> what I'd emphasise the most in all this is, do not give in to >>> emotional blackmail!! just do not. >>> prepare yourself for some temporary strain, and look forward to a >>> healthier and more meaningful future with your family. >>> >>> best, >>> >>> Shireen. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/17, Rahul Bajaj via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> >>>> wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alok. I agree that the anxiety and fear of the parent here is >>>> divorced from the actual capabilities of the disabled person. >>>> Such blind resistance to accepting the proposition that the blind >>>> person has to be given space to grow and make their own mistakes is >>>> what creates an >>>> impasse. >>>> If a blind adult is told that they will always need an escort, but the >>>> only difference will be that the escort will be their wife instead of >>>> their mother >>>> in future, that reflects the parent's absolute failure to understand >>>> the other person's perspective. >>>> >>>> I think the suggestions that you have offered are very helpful. >>>> However, they nonetheless presuppose that the parent is willing to >>>> engage in a calm conversation >>>> with a semi open mind. The fundamental problem here is that that also >>>> is not true most of the time. >>>> The disabled person is told that the parent will start stepping back >>>> when the disabled person acquires the requisite independence. When >>>> asked to outline >>>> the criteria based on which the parent will be able to say that the >>>> child has reached that level, the parent becomes confrontational and >>>> states that the >>>> disabled person has not seen the darker side of the world yet. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>>> On 05/08/2017, Alok Kaushik <alok.li...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>> What you have mentioned suggests that the fundamental issue is not >>>>> about >>>>> the capabilities of the visually impaired person and parent's comfort >>>>> level >>>>> with it but a limitation that the parent himself / herself is facing >>>>> in >>>>> terms of handling the situation if something goes wrong. He / she >>>>> has >>>>> a >>>>> fixed idea that he / she is responsible for the VI person, and >>>>> hence >>>>> has to take decisions. >>>>> >>>>> This is a more difficult scenario to deal with because it is not >>>>> about >>>>> VI >>>>> person's but their notions of their own limitations and >>>>> responsibilities. >>>>> In such a case while demonstrating your capabilities is important, >>>>> it >>>>> is >>>>> equally important to relieve them of the burden of that sense of >>>>> responsibility and limitation. This would especially be relevant in >>>>> case >>>>> of single parents, and also in scenarios in which parents consider >>>>> themselves to be socially answerable if anything goes wrong. >>>>> >>>>> It would be important to make them understand that their support >>>>> would >>>>> not be everlasting, and their help is needed to make oneself >>>>> independent, >>>>> if they really want him / her to live well. They can better help >>>>> adapt, >>>>> practice, and achieve a high level of comfort while they can still >>>>> support >>>>> . One saying that I often use to quote is "You give your son a >>>>> fish, >>>>> he >>>>> eats today. You teach him how to fish, he eats every day.". >>>>> >>>>> I have also seen some parents say that you can do whatever you want >>>>> after >>>>> us but not while we are still around. This again reflects that the >>>>> focus >>>>> of >>>>> their thinking is not really the limitations of the visually impaired >>>>> person >>>>> but their own limitations. >>>>> >>>>> One may have to make the parents realize they have a support system >>>>> to >>>>> handle any situation. And also, it needs to come out in one's >>>>> communication that he / she is now prepared to take on the >>>>> responsibilities >>>>> of his / her actions. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to reiterate that patience is still the key. If one >>>>> really intends to be independent, it would eventually happen. In >>>>> fact >>>>> at >>>>> some point being independent would be a requirement whether one wants >>>>> to >>>>> or >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Alok >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rahul Bajaj [mailto:rahul.bajaj10...@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 9:16 PM >>>>> To: Share, empower &Enrich >>>>> Cc: Alok Kaushik >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a >>>>> regressive >>>>> view about the capabilities of the disabled >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, everyone. Your responses are very insightful and >>>>> informative. >>>>> >>>>> Alok, I agree with you that one has to strive to avoid either of those >>>>> extremes. However, all these suggestions operate on the premise that >>>>> the >>>>> parent in question is reasonable and willing to change their views >>>>> based >>>>> on >>>>> changing circumstances. I am afraid that is not always the case. Some >>>>> parents cannot be reasoned with and offer you a choice between not >>>>> doing >>>>> something and doing it as per their own unreasonable terms. What >>>>> choice >>>>> is >>>>> one left with in such cases? >>>>> Further, while the incremental approach works best, that cannot >>>>> address >>>>> a >>>>> parent's unfounded fear that something horrible will happen. >>>>> Finally, if a parent is blackmailing a child into not doing something >>>>> or >>>>> doing it in a very different way from what the child wants without >>>>> even >>>>> articulating genuine safety concerns that make them wary, what should >>>>> one >>>>> do? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Alok Kaushik via Ai >>>>>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>>> You have brought up a very relevant subject. Although I always had >>>>>> a >>>>>> very understanding family, I also had to experience a phase in >>>>>> which >>>>>> the family members had to be brought to a certain comfort level. I >>>>>> never faced any restrictions but additional comfort level had to be >>>>>> developed, and I can easily observe the change in level of comfort >>>>>> and >>>>>> confidence they now have. >>>>>> >>>>>> Besides that I have also seen several cases around me, in which >>>>>> similar >>>>>> issues as mentioned by you were present. Here are my observations >>>>>> and >>>>>> thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not think that any organization or friend will be able to make >>>>>> a >>>>>> decisive impact on the thinking of parents / family members just by >>>>>> telling them about some of the other people who have been able to do >>>>>> much >>>>>> more. It largely depends on how much drive the visually impaired >>>>>> person >>>>>> himself / herself has to become independent, and how effectively >>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>> expressed. >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the main reasons of the parents is the safety concern. One >>>>>> still >>>>>> needs to take a decision to go ahead and do things but taking some >>>>>> measures could help understand the parents that he / she is not >>>>>> reckless >>>>>> about the safety. For example, one can share the taxi number while >>>>>> travelling outside at home, it communicates the same message, while >>>>>> being >>>>>> an actual safety measure. Letting the family members know when to >>>>>> expect >>>>>> you back home realistically would provide them extra comfort. These >>>>>> actions are simply related to information sharing and do not >>>>>> necessarily >>>>>> restricts oneself. This goes a long way in developing a comfort >>>>>> level >>>>>> without creating any friction in the relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>> Besides moving outdoors, if there are other things that one is >>>>>> looking >>>>>> to do but is facing restrictive approach, comfort level can best be >>>>>> created by generating opportunities to demonstrate that one would >>>>>> be >>>>>> happy doing such a task and can do it. Communicating that he / she >>>>>> would >>>>>> definitely ask for help if needed is also very effective. There >>>>>> is >>>>>> no >>>>>> better conviction then actually seeing a person doing something. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few things that we need to keep in mind is that we ourselves need >>>>>> to >>>>>> be patient while persisting with the effort to demonstrate and >>>>>> develop >>>>>> and confidence in others. It will take some time and repeated >>>>>> observations by others before their scepticism could change to >>>>>> conviction. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is possible that one may have to be more assertive at times, but >>>>>> it >>>>>> would be good to balance it out rather quickly to avoid any negative >>>>>> effect on the relationship. Underlying feeling behind the >>>>>> assertiveness >>>>>> needs to be that of confidence and not disregard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course there would be two extremes, one in which a person >>>>>> chooses >>>>>> to >>>>>> enjoy the convenience that a protective environment offers, which >>>>>> comes >>>>>> back and bites hard once that supportive environment collapses or >>>>>> dents, >>>>>> or in other in which a person becomes a rebel, gains the >>>>>> independence >>>>>> and >>>>>> the relationships languishes. >>>>>> >>>>>> My thoughts are to bring about a change while sustaining good >>>>>> relationships. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Alok >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Rahul Bajaj via Ai >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 1:12 PM >>>>>> To: ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> Subject: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive >>>>>> view about the capabilities of the disabled >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>>>> At the outset, let me clarify that this question may or may not have >>>>>> anything to do with my own personal experiences, so I'd appreciate it >>>>>> if >>>>>> the aim of the conversation could be to understand this phenomenon in >>>>>> general terms as opposed to focusing too much on my own situation. >>>>>> >>>>>> While a lot of us focus on the importance of sensitizing various >>>>>> stakeholders, such as employers, academic institutions and others >>>>>> about >>>>>> the capabilities of the disabled, few focus on the discrimination >>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>> disabled face in their own homes due to the view that their own >>>>>> family >>>>>> has >>>>>> about their capabilities or potential. >>>>>> More specifically, if one has a parent who is unwilling to learn from >>>>>> the >>>>>> experiences of other blind people and give their disabled child the >>>>>> freedom that we all deserve, to what extent should one follow what >>>>>> such >>>>>> a >>>>>> parent says? >>>>>> Further, while safety is doubtless important, if the disabled person >>>>>> has >>>>>> the requisite maturity to ascertain if they will be safe in a given >>>>>> environment, should they act as per their own assessment or follow >>>>>> what >>>>>> their parent is saying, in the fear of alienating them? >>>>>> I think there are many emotional forces at play in a family setting >>>>>> that >>>>>> may not be involved in other settings. For instance, one often hears >>>>>> of >>>>>> parents emotionally blackmailing their children into acting the way >>>>>> they >>>>>> want without recognizing that this may not be in the child's best >>>>>> interest. >>>>>> Finally, what makes the situation worse is the fact that the external >>>>>> world [friends and wellwishers] is also often apprehensive to >>>>>> interfere >>>>>> in >>>>>> these matters on behalf of the disabled person on the ground that >>>>>> this >>>>>> is >>>>>> an internal family matter, so that makes it significantly harder for >>>>>> the >>>>>> disabled person to fully assert himself/herself. >>>>>> >>>>>> If any of you have dealt with the above, I'd be curious to know what >>>>>> you >>>>>> think about these issues. >>>>>> I am mindful of the fact that not many people would be open to >>>>>> discussing >>>>>> this on a public forum, so please feel free to mail me off-list about >>>>>> this. Further, not many may see this as a problem, given how >>>>>> accustomed >>>>>> they are to succumbing to their parents' wishes, no matter how >>>>>> uninformed >>>>>> and inappropriate those wishes may be. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>>>> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>>>> veracity; >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>>>> mails >>>>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, >>>>>> reach: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailli >>>>>> st.html _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ai mailing list >>>>>> Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>>>> http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai >>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>>>> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>>>> veracity; >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>>>> mails >>>>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, >>>>>> reach: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailli >>>>>> st.html _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ai mailing list >>>>>> Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>>>> http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Disclaimer: >>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>> of >>>> the >>>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>> veracity; >>>> >>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>> mails >>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, >>>> reach: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/maillist.html >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Ai mailing list >>>> Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>> http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai >>>> >>> Disclaimer: >>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of >>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>> veracity; >>> >>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>> mails >>> sent through this mailing list.. >>> >>> >>> >>> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, >>> reach: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/maillist.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Ai mailing list >>> Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>> http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai >> > Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. 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