what happened to those days when you could put a chevy v8 into a beetle and no problemo?
--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Brian Shorey <[email protected]> wrote: From: Brian Shorey <[email protected]> Subject: Re: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps To: "George Graves" <[email protected]> Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 2:16 AM I understand that there are multiple agencies and sets of rules involved. My comment was concerning the ability to build a new kit car, and have it somehow get governed by the vintage of whatever year motor you happen to throw into it. That covers emissions, there are no safety requirements? So, here in the year 2009, I cannot import a 2008 Alfa Romeo without jumping through all kinds of hoops, but I can import a brand spanking new Hawk Stratos replica, that may or may not meet DOT crash test standards for whatever year the Stratos may have been made, and which only has to pass emissions for whatever year motor I choose to throw into it? Which car is safer, and which car is better for the environment? That's all.. bs ________________________________ From: George Graves <[email protected]> To: Brian Shorey <[email protected]> Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 2:02:30 AM Subject: Re: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps What would stop you is your honesty. I have heard of people who have done just as you suggest and other similar scams like using salvage titles to register a car never sold in the USA as an earlier, pre-smog model. So far, they seem to have gotten away with it. As to your second paragraph, you're right, but it's really two different set of rules at work here. The smog rules apply to all vehicles in some way or another, but the DOT SAFETY laws, the ones that keep you from importing a newer, cleaner car, have nothing to do with emissions, they have to do with crash-test and equipment certification (lights, glass, bumpers, etc.). Those laws have a 25 (and in some cases a 15) year cutoff. If the car is older than the cutoff for crash and safety compliance, you can bring it in without any trouble. But a newer car that hasn't been through the US DOT certification process (at a cost to the manufacturer of millions) is simply NOT allowed. George Graves '86 GTV-6 3.0 'S' On Dec 11, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Brian Shorey wrote: > Interesting. So what stops you from building your kit with a 1967 Alfa motor, then popping in something later after you've cleared all the paperwork? > > It's mind boggling that the rules allow you to do this kind of thing, i.e. put a 'new' 1964 vehicle on the road, but prohibit you from bringing in something much newer which would be cleaner, safer, and probably more fuel efficient. > > bs > > From: George Graves <[email protected]> > To: The Baylys <[email protected]> > Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 8:06:44 PM > Subject: Re: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps > > I think home-mades and kit cars fall outside of US DOT jurisdiction. As far as most states are concerned (I know this is true of California) The car is always registered as the "donor" make and if only an engine and tranny is used from another vehicle, then the car registration is designed off of the engine donor. Smog certification is the same. If the engine used in a kit or home-made car comes from a street vehicle, then the smog rules that apply to the kit or home-made vehicle are those in force for that donor and the year in which it was first registered. IOW, if one built a GT-40 replica (or bought one of those as a "semi-kit" from a dealer representing the maker - like for a CAV or a Superformance GT-40 replica from South Africa) and used a Ford 289 engine from the late 1960's, then the car would be registered as a late '60's Ford car. This means that it can have carburetors, and would fall under the pre-1976 model year smog rules - no semi-annual smog check. If, OTOH, one were to build a kit (like the Hawk Lancia Startos replica) and installed the drive-train from a 1994 24-valve Alfa 164, (Go to their web site. This is what is most often done for these cars - an FWD Alfa V6 http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/hf3000/index.html), then that car would have to be smogged every two years at a test-only facility as a 1994 Alfa 164. I also believe that before one can get a kit or home-made registered, one has to visit a smog tech center/arbitration center and have the car checked over for emissions and entered into the CA database system. Otherwise it would never show up on a normal smog station's computer and the techs there wouldn't know how to proceed. > > > George Graves > '86 GTV-6 3.0 'S' > > > > > On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:58 PM, The Baylys wrote: > > > Russ, sounds like a big task to me. Have you instead considered building a spaceframe clubman and using the 164 driveline in RWD configuration (if a clubman is legal in the US)? You could build your own or modify an existing kit. > > > > I imagine it would be nigh-on impossible to fit it all under an X-19 and if you try doing it to a Fiero you would be immediately struck by lightening and go straight to hell.................... ;-) > > > > Beatle > > Oz > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Neely" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Cc: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:45 AM > > Subject: Re: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps > > > > > >> Actually, I was thinking of stuffing the whole thing in a Fiat X-19, > >> which probably would not work. A Fiero chassis is larger and has removable > >> plastic body work. So I could make it look like a Stradale. > >> > >> OK, I am 61 years old and have more than enough Alfa projects to last me > >> the rest of my life. So this endeavor will probably never happen. > >> Maybe I should put it in my Milano. Clearance for the brake > >> booster might be the major obstacle. > >> > >> Ciao, > >> Russ Neely > >> Oklahoma City > >> > >> > >> > >> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps > >> To: "Russell Neely" <[email protected]> > >> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 10:17 AM > >> > >> > >> I cannot say with any certainity but as the transmissions were the same for > >> the whole 164 run, I'd say that they'd bolt up. > >> > >> Only concern I'd have is the TCU (if so equipped) and getting back up lights > >> to work when reverse is engaged, depending on how you're planning on doing the > >> swap. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >> > >> > >> From: Russell Neely <[email protected]> > >> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:12:41 -0800 (PST) > >> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > >> Subject: 164 4 Cam Engine, was Re: [alfa] Re: 164 Euro Lamps > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> There is a dark blue 164 LS for sale here in Oklahoma City. Owner wants > >> $2,000. I offered $1000 for the engine only. > >> This Alfa is an automatic with about 157,000 miles. The automatic is > >> going out and the front suspension / driveshafts has problems. I am not sure > >> exactly. > >> The engine is good with nearly new timing belt and new idlers. > >> > >> Can anyone tell me if the 4 cam engine bolts up to a five speed from a > >> common Alfa like the 164 L or base model? > >> > >> Ciao, > >> Russ Neely > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: [email protected] [email protected] > >> > >> > >> On another note, I was at a cash for clunkers auction at Manheim the other > >> week, a 95 Alfa 164LS with 232,000 miles sold for $500. I was more taken aback > >> with the mileage, especially since it was a 24v car! > >> > >> Nick > >> > >> In Washington, DC looking for a white '95 164Q > >> -- > >> to be removed from alfa, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi > >> or email "unsubscribe alfa" to [email protected] > > -- > > to be removed from alfa, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi > > or email "unsubscribe alfa" to [email protected] > -- > to be removed from alfa, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi > or email "unsubscribe alfa" to [email protected] -- to be removed from alfa, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi or email "unsubscribe alfa" to [email protected] -- to be removed from alfa, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi or email "unsubscribe alfa" to [email protected]
