Hi Martin, Maybe just one more story before getting back on topic. When DEC still existed (only surpassed by IBM in revenue), in one of the head office buildings a software engineer was riding his bicycle in the hallways, a VP of the company spotted him and fired him. They had to hire him back with more salary when they realized without his contribution it would have a significant impact on the company. True story, John S
On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:16 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Martin, > Still have an Alpha in storage that still has the software that was used > to control a hot strip mill (for a steel company). > When I was still consulting my role was writing software for > communications with PLCs and integrating it with software (fortran) that > another wrote (an engineer that understood the physics involved) that > controlled the steel rollers to keep the steel sheets within a certain > tolerance. This was actually a ML (Machine Learning) application since the > software was able to learn from the data from the PLCs and make the > necessary adjustments. > > Again something to read when you are having trouble sleeping. > John S > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 2:43 PM Martin Kobetic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi John, interesting stuff. We are getting a bit off-topic, hopefully >> others don't mind. I joined the party in the 90s, I remember HP pa-risc, >> Sun Sparc, SGI Indigo workstations. Intel and PCs were just establishing >> their foothold. I haven't really worked with the Alphas. It sounds like >> you >> have a lot of material for some interesting blog posts if you were so >> inclined. >> >> Best regards, >> Martin >> >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:54 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Again Martin, >> > These emails are for when you have trouble sleeping (will put you >> asleep). >> > Bill Gates hired Dave Cutler away from DEC (who worked on vms 32 bit >> > operating systems) to bring forth (no pun intended) Windows NT (their 32 >> > bit version of windows) and it carried on from there to this day. So >> > software engineering is a surviving skill through time. Hope some of the >> > younger readers of these emails understand this, you work with hardware >> but >> > don't get constrained by it. >> > >> > Regards, >> > John S >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:07 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Again Martin, >> > > How things have changed, when I worked at DEC (PDP11s, VAX, Alpha ...) >> > > many years ago where are they (DEC) now? >> > > Part of HP now, did you know that DEC was offered to own unix (turned >> it >> > > down). They were also the 1st to use expert systems to configure PDP, >> > Vax, >> > > microVax, ... hardware configurations. HP was the 1st to bring out >> RISC >> > > processors and DEC responded with their 64 bit RISC Alphas. Now the >> > > chinese are dominating the RISC market using royalty-free RISCV core >> > chips, >> > > ARM (risc) is still ahead for the time being in high end processors. >> The >> > > Cortex-M7 platform that I referenced before is approx 35$us and it >> easily >> > > outperforms the dated DEC Alpha which at one time ran the internet >> search >> > > engine of choice. Just ranting on in my so-called retirement years. >> > > >> > > Best Regards, >> > > John S >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 10:07 AM John Sarabacha <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> Hi Again Martin, >> > >> A lot of useful information from that link, thanks again. There is a >> > >> temptation to use C for these core (foundation words - mcu assembly >> > words) >> > >> since compilers these days can generate very efficient code. The >> issue >> > is >> > >> amForth tries to be compatible with the 2012 forth standard whereas >> > other C >> > >> based forths like ueForth don't. It still makes more sense just to >> make >> > the >> > >> adjustments to amForth assembly code keeping in mind the C forth code >> > >> (looked at) compiled with -S (for the assembler code) may deviate >> from >> > this >> > >> standard. >> > >> >> > >> Best Regards, >> > >> John S >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 9:15 AM John Sarabacha <[email protected] >> > >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Thanks Martin, >> > >>> That information saves me a lot of time, what I was also thinking of >> > >>> doing is letting the compiler tell me >> > >>> how to be compatible, this is where ueForth (being in C) can help, >> for >> > >>> each C word compile with -S and >> > >>> see what the assembly listing looks like and compare this to what >> the >> > >>> amForth word has and make the adjustments. >> > >>> >> > >>> Thanks again, >> > >>> John S >> > >>> >> > >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:52 AM Martin Kobetic <[email protected]> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> Hi John, >> > >>>> That is a sweet looking board. I need to resist the urge to get one >> > too. >> > >>>> I've got plenty that I didn't even use yet :). >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I'm not that well versed in ARM yet, but the errors sound like the >> > >>>> instruction mode >> > >>>> is being switched around for some reason. Maybe we need to ensure >> > >>>> somehow >> > >>>> that >> > >>>> it sticks with Thumb? There may also be some issue with >> interworking, >> > I >> > >>>> haven't quite >> > >>>> wrapped my head around that either. A lot to do still. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Some interesting references >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28669905/what-is-the-difference-between-the-arm-thumb-and-thumb-2-instruction-encodings >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0203/j/interworking-arm-and-thumb/about-interworking >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Best regards, >> > >>>> Martin >> > >>>> >> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:40 AM John Sarabacha < >> [email protected] >> > > >> > >>>> wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> > Hi Martin, >> > >>>> > The Cortex-M7 doesn't like the assembler instructions for >> arm/words, >> > >>>> some >> > >>>> > examples: >> > >>>> > ./words/dup.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support this addressing >> mode >> > >>>> -- `str >> > >>>> > tos,[psp,#-4]!' >> > >>>> > ./words/nip.s:4: Error: instruction not supported in Thumb16 >> mode -- >> > >>>> `adds >> > >>>> > psp,#4' >> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support conditional >> execution >> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:5: Error: incorrect condition in IT block -- `b >> > DO_NEXT >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > Tried different options for the GCC compiler/assembler without >> > >>>> success. >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > FYI >> > >>>> > John S >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 1:13 PM John Sarabacha < >> > [email protected]> >> > >>>> > wrote: >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > > Hi Martin, >> > >>>> > > Some information on my Cortex-M7 based target platform, Arduino >> > >>>> > > development environment is being is used >> > >>>> > > https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > Regards, >> > >>>> > > John S >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 12:04 PM John Sarabacha < >> > >>>> [email protected]> >> > >>>> > > wrote: >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > >> Hi Martin, >> > >>>> > >> I will be trying to host amForth on an arm-m7 (600Mhz) >> platform >> > >>>> which >> > >>>> > was >> > >>>> > >> being evaluated a few years ago. I will be using the same >> process >> > >>>> as I >> > >>>> > used >> > >>>> > >> for CH32X033. Any learning I will pass on, M7 is significantly >> > >>>> different >> > >>>> > >> than M4 so by sticking to thumb type instructions there >> should be >> > >>>> some >> > >>>> > >> common issues. >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>> > >> Regards, >> > >>>> > >> John S >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >> > >>>> [email protected] >> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >> > _______________________________________________ Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
