On Wed, Jan 14, 2026, 11:11 John Sarabacha <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Martin, > To keep it on topic (maybe at least regarding forth). When the 1st forth > was being created by Charles Moore to control telescopes he used a DEC > PDP11 (not sure which one). > History of forth, > John S > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 9:14 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > Maybe just one more story before getting back on topic. When DEC still > > existed (only surpassed by IBM in revenue), in one of the head office > > buildings a software engineer was riding his bicycle in the hallways, a > VP > > of the company spotted him and fired him. They had to hire him back with > > more salary when they realized without his contribution it would have a > > significant impact on the company. > > True story, > > John S > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:16 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Martin, > >> Still have an Alpha in storage that still has the software that was used > >> to control a hot strip mill (for a steel company). > >> When I was still consulting my role was writing software for > >> communications with PLCs and integrating it with software (fortran) that > >> another wrote (an engineer that understood the physics involved) that > >> controlled the steel rollers to keep the steel sheets within a certain > >> tolerance. This was actually a ML (Machine Learning) application since > the > >> software was able to learn from the data from the PLCs and make the > >> necessary adjustments. > >> > >> Again something to read when you are having trouble sleeping. > >> John S > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 2:43 PM Martin Kobetic <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi John, interesting stuff. We are getting a bit off-topic, hopefully > >>> others don't mind. I joined the party in the 90s, I remember HP > pa-risc, > >>> Sun Sparc, SGI Indigo workstations. Intel and PCs were just > establishing > >>> their foothold. I haven't really worked with the Alphas. It sounds like > >>> you > >>> have a lot of material for some interesting blog posts if you were so > >>> inclined. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:54 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > Hi Again Martin, > >>> > These emails are for when you have trouble sleeping (will put you > >>> asleep). > >>> > Bill Gates hired Dave Cutler away from DEC (who worked on vms 32 bit > >>> > operating systems) to bring forth (no pun intended) Windows NT (their > >>> 32 > >>> > bit version of windows) and it carried on from there to this day. So > >>> > software engineering is a surviving skill through time. Hope some of > >>> the > >>> > younger readers of these emails understand this, you work with > >>> hardware but > >>> > don't get constrained by it. > >>> > > >>> > Regards, > >>> > John S > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:07 PM John Sarabacha < > [email protected]> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > Hi Again Martin, > >>> > > How things have changed, when I worked at DEC (PDP11s, VAX, Alpha > >>> ...) > >>> > > many years ago where are they (DEC) now? > >>> > > Part of HP now, did you know that DEC was offered to own unix > >>> (turned it > >>> > > down). They were also the 1st to use expert systems to configure > PDP, > >>> > Vax, > >>> > > microVax, ... hardware configurations. HP was the 1st to bring out > >>> RISC > >>> > > processors and DEC responded with their 64 bit RISC Alphas. Now the > >>> > > chinese are dominating the RISC market using royalty-free RISCV > core > >>> > chips, > >>> > > ARM (risc) is still ahead for the time being in high end > processors. > >>> The > >>> > > Cortex-M7 platform that I referenced before is approx 35$us and it > >>> easily > >>> > > outperforms the dated DEC Alpha which at one time ran the internet > >>> search > >>> > > engine of choice. Just ranting on in my so-called retirement years. > >>> > > > >>> > > Best Regards, > >>> > > John S > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 10:07 AM John Sarabacha < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > >> Hi Again Martin, > >>> > >> A lot of useful information from that link, thanks again. There > is a > >>> > >> temptation to use C for these core (foundation words - mcu > assembly > >>> > words) > >>> > >> since compilers these days can generate very efficient code. The > >>> issue > >>> > is > >>> > >> amForth tries to be compatible with the 2012 forth standard > whereas > >>> > other C > >>> > >> based forths like ueForth don't. It still makes more sense just to > >>> make > >>> > the > >>> > >> adjustments to amForth assembly code keeping in mind the C forth > >>> code > >>> > >> (looked at) compiled with -S (for the assembler code) may deviate > >>> from > >>> > this > >>> > >> standard. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Best Regards, > >>> > >> John S > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 9:15 AM John Sarabacha < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> > >> wrote: > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> Thanks Martin, > >>> > >>> That information saves me a lot of time, what I was also thinking > >>> of > >>> > >>> doing is letting the compiler tell me > >>> > >>> how to be compatible, this is where ueForth (being in C) can > help, > >>> for > >>> > >>> each C word compile with -S and > >>> > >>> see what the assembly listing looks like and compare this to what > >>> the > >>> > >>> amForth word has and make the adjustments. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks again, > >>> > >>> John S > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:52 AM Martin Kobetic < > [email protected] > >>> > > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi John, > >>> > >>>> That is a sweet looking board. I need to resist the urge to get > >>> one > >>> > too. > >>> > >>>> I've got plenty that I didn't even use yet :). > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> I'm not that well versed in ARM yet, but the errors sound like > the > >>> > >>>> instruction mode > >>> > >>>> is being switched around for some reason. Maybe we need to > ensure > >>> > >>>> somehow > >>> > >>>> that > >>> > >>>> it sticks with Thumb? There may also be some issue with > >>> interworking, > >>> > I > >>> > >>>> haven't quite > >>> > >>>> wrapped my head around that either. A lot to do still. > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> Some interesting references > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > > >>> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28669905/what-is-the-difference-between-the-arm-thumb-and-thumb-2-instruction-encodings > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > > >>> > https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0203/j/interworking-arm-and-thumb/about-interworking > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>> > >>>> Martin > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:40 AM John Sarabacha < > >>> [email protected] > >>> > > > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > Hi Martin, > >>> > >>>> > The Cortex-M7 doesn't like the assembler instructions for > >>> arm/words, > >>> > >>>> some > >>> > >>>> > examples: > >>> > >>>> > ./words/dup.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support this addressing > >>> mode > >>> > >>>> -- `str > >>> > >>>> > tos,[psp,#-4]!' > >>> > >>>> > ./words/nip.s:4: Error: instruction not supported in Thumb16 > >>> mode -- > >>> > >>>> `adds > >>> > >>>> > psp,#4' > >>> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support conditional > >>> execution > >>> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:5: Error: incorrect condition in IT block -- `b > >>> > DO_NEXT > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > Tried different options for the GCC compiler/assembler without > >>> > >>>> success. > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > FYI > >>> > >>>> > John S > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 1:13 PM John Sarabacha < > >>> > [email protected]> > >>> > >>>> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > Hi Martin, > >>> > >>>> > > Some information on my Cortex-M7 based target platform, > >>> Arduino > >>> > >>>> > > development environment is being is used > >>> > >>>> > > https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html > >>> > >>>> > > > >>> > >>>> > > Regards, > >>> > >>>> > > John S > >>> > >>>> > > > >>> > >>>> > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 12:04 PM John Sarabacha < > >>> > >>>> [email protected]> > >>> > >>>> > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> > > > >>> > >>>> > >> Hi Martin, > >>> > >>>> > >> I will be trying to host amForth on an arm-m7 (600Mhz) > >>> platform > >>> > >>>> which > >>> > >>>> > was > >>> > >>>> > >> being evaluated a few years ago. I will be using the same > >>> process > >>> > >>>> as I > >>> > >>>> > used > >>> > >>>> > >> for CH32X033. Any learning I will pass on, M7 is > >>> significantly > >>> > >>>> different > >>> > >>>> > >> than M4 so by sticking to thumb type instructions there > >>> should be > >>> > >>>> some > >>> > >>>> > >> common issues. > >>> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >>>> > >> Regards, > >>> > >>>> > >> John S > >>> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ > >>> > >>>> [email protected] > >>> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ > >>> > [email protected] > >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel > _______________________________________________ Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
