Hi Martin, To keep it on topic (maybe at least regarding forth). When the 1st forth was being created by Charles Moore to control telescopes he used a DEC PDP11 (not sure which one). History of forth, John S
On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 9:14 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Martin, > Maybe just one more story before getting back on topic. When DEC still > existed (only surpassed by IBM in revenue), in one of the head office > buildings a software engineer was riding his bicycle in the hallways, a VP > of the company spotted him and fired him. They had to hire him back with > more salary when they realized without his contribution it would have a > significant impact on the company. > True story, > John S > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:16 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Martin, >> Still have an Alpha in storage that still has the software that was used >> to control a hot strip mill (for a steel company). >> When I was still consulting my role was writing software for >> communications with PLCs and integrating it with software (fortran) that >> another wrote (an engineer that understood the physics involved) that >> controlled the steel rollers to keep the steel sheets within a certain >> tolerance. This was actually a ML (Machine Learning) application since the >> software was able to learn from the data from the PLCs and make the >> necessary adjustments. >> >> Again something to read when you are having trouble sleeping. >> John S >> >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 2:43 PM Martin Kobetic <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi John, interesting stuff. We are getting a bit off-topic, hopefully >>> others don't mind. I joined the party in the 90s, I remember HP pa-risc, >>> Sun Sparc, SGI Indigo workstations. Intel and PCs were just establishing >>> their foothold. I haven't really worked with the Alphas. It sounds like >>> you >>> have a lot of material for some interesting blog posts if you were so >>> inclined. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Martin >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:54 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi Again Martin, >>> > These emails are for when you have trouble sleeping (will put you >>> asleep). >>> > Bill Gates hired Dave Cutler away from DEC (who worked on vms 32 bit >>> > operating systems) to bring forth (no pun intended) Windows NT (their >>> 32 >>> > bit version of windows) and it carried on from there to this day. So >>> > software engineering is a surviving skill through time. Hope some of >>> the >>> > younger readers of these emails understand this, you work with >>> hardware but >>> > don't get constrained by it. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > John S >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:07 PM John Sarabacha <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hi Again Martin, >>> > > How things have changed, when I worked at DEC (PDP11s, VAX, Alpha >>> ...) >>> > > many years ago where are they (DEC) now? >>> > > Part of HP now, did you know that DEC was offered to own unix >>> (turned it >>> > > down). They were also the 1st to use expert systems to configure PDP, >>> > Vax, >>> > > microVax, ... hardware configurations. HP was the 1st to bring out >>> RISC >>> > > processors and DEC responded with their 64 bit RISC Alphas. Now the >>> > > chinese are dominating the RISC market using royalty-free RISCV core >>> > chips, >>> > > ARM (risc) is still ahead for the time being in high end processors. >>> The >>> > > Cortex-M7 platform that I referenced before is approx 35$us and it >>> easily >>> > > outperforms the dated DEC Alpha which at one time ran the internet >>> search >>> > > engine of choice. Just ranting on in my so-called retirement years. >>> > > >>> > > Best Regards, >>> > > John S >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 10:07 AM John Sarabacha < >>> [email protected]> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Hi Again Martin, >>> > >> A lot of useful information from that link, thanks again. There is a >>> > >> temptation to use C for these core (foundation words - mcu assembly >>> > words) >>> > >> since compilers these days can generate very efficient code. The >>> issue >>> > is >>> > >> amForth tries to be compatible with the 2012 forth standard whereas >>> > other C >>> > >> based forths like ueForth don't. It still makes more sense just to >>> make >>> > the >>> > >> adjustments to amForth assembly code keeping in mind the C forth >>> code >>> > >> (looked at) compiled with -S (for the assembler code) may deviate >>> from >>> > this >>> > >> standard. >>> > >> >>> > >> Best Regards, >>> > >> John S >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 9:15 AM John Sarabacha < >>> [email protected]> >>> > >> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >>> Thanks Martin, >>> > >>> That information saves me a lot of time, what I was also thinking >>> of >>> > >>> doing is letting the compiler tell me >>> > >>> how to be compatible, this is where ueForth (being in C) can help, >>> for >>> > >>> each C word compile with -S and >>> > >>> see what the assembly listing looks like and compare this to what >>> the >>> > >>> amForth word has and make the adjustments. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Thanks again, >>> > >>> John S >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:52 AM Martin Kobetic <[email protected] >>> > >>> > >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>>> Hi John, >>> > >>>> That is a sweet looking board. I need to resist the urge to get >>> one >>> > too. >>> > >>>> I've got plenty that I didn't even use yet :). >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> I'm not that well versed in ARM yet, but the errors sound like the >>> > >>>> instruction mode >>> > >>>> is being switched around for some reason. Maybe we need to ensure >>> > >>>> somehow >>> > >>>> that >>> > >>>> it sticks with Thumb? There may also be some issue with >>> interworking, >>> > I >>> > >>>> haven't quite >>> > >>>> wrapped my head around that either. A lot to do still. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Some interesting references >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28669905/what-is-the-difference-between-the-arm-thumb-and-thumb-2-instruction-encodings >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0203/j/interworking-arm-and-thumb/about-interworking >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Best regards, >>> > >>>> Martin >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 12:40 AM John Sarabacha < >>> [email protected] >>> > > >>> > >>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> > Hi Martin, >>> > >>>> > The Cortex-M7 doesn't like the assembler instructions for >>> arm/words, >>> > >>>> some >>> > >>>> > examples: >>> > >>>> > ./words/dup.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support this addressing >>> mode >>> > >>>> -- `str >>> > >>>> > tos,[psp,#-4]!' >>> > >>>> > ./words/nip.s:4: Error: instruction not supported in Thumb16 >>> mode -- >>> > >>>> `adds >>> > >>>> > psp,#4' >>> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:4: Error: Thumb does not support conditional >>> execution >>> > >>>> > ./words/abs.s:5: Error: incorrect condition in IT block -- `b >>> > DO_NEXT >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > Tried different options for the GCC compiler/assembler without >>> > >>>> success. >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > FYI >>> > >>>> > John S >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 1:13 PM John Sarabacha < >>> > [email protected]> >>> > >>>> > wrote: >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > > Hi Martin, >>> > >>>> > > Some information on my Cortex-M7 based target platform, >>> Arduino >>> > >>>> > > development environment is being is used >>> > >>>> > > https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > Regards, >>> > >>>> > > John S >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 12:04 PM John Sarabacha < >>> > >>>> [email protected]> >>> > >>>> > > wrote: >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > >> Hi Martin, >>> > >>>> > >> I will be trying to host amForth on an arm-m7 (600Mhz) >>> platform >>> > >>>> which >>> > >>>> > was >>> > >>>> > >> being evaluated a few years ago. I will be using the same >>> process >>> > >>>> as I >>> > >>>> > used >>> > >>>> > >> for CH32X033. Any learning I will pass on, M7 is >>> significantly >>> > >>>> different >>> > >>>> > >> than M4 so by sticking to thumb type instructions there >>> should be >>> > >>>> some >>> > >>>> > >> common issues. >>> > >>>> > >> >>> > >>>> > >> Regards, >>> > >>>> > >> John S >>> > >>>> > >> >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >>> > >>>> [email protected] >>> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >>> > [email protected] >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel >>> >> _______________________________________________ Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
