So Robert.. is this a platform issue in your mind.. being that it happens on all android devices currently regardless of manufacturer? Or is it a driver issue for each hand set and just oddly happens to be coincidental that various manufacturers have the exact same issue with multi-touch? I am sure what Diane says is accurate... but yet it seems odd that different manufacturers have the same problem.
On a slightly different note.. what is the stance of the Android platform team as a whole towards game developers? By this I mean, if this is indeed an issue on different manufacturer's handsets.. is it important enough that game developers, which for sure will be a large segment of popularity for android as it is on iPhone.. can get this escalated enough to get some platform/driver developers looking into it and if possible, tap the community (such as Robert) to help, so we can figure out exactly what is going on? It just seems too crucial of an issue to overlook being that it directly makes it impossible as of now for game developers to really utilize multi touch. Robert (et all)... an app I want to eventually get around doing is a drum machine app.. with multiple drum pads. On the iPhone, an app called BeatMaker allows for 5 pads at once to be touched. Would this issue possibly make an app like this not work? I don't even know if Android can handle more than two touches at once.. but there are plenty of apps out there that will use more than two simultaneous touches at once. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Robert Green <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok if you guys want to see what I'm talking about, check out the app I > just published called "Multitouch Visible Test." Play around with > that and you'll see the problems. If you're interested in developing a > multitouch app, check that out first so that you know the limitations > of the data you'll be working with. > > On Feb 12, 4:55 pm, Robert Green <[email protected]> wrote: > > Luke's code cleans up some basic stuff like gestures involving > > pinching but it can not fix the two independent point problem. > > Currently, even with his code which filters out some noise, it is > > impossible to have a reliable control system involving two independent > > virtual joysticks placed along the same axis. So many iPhone games > > have that and I was actually planning it for my new release but > > unfortunately it will not work. I'm talking about the controls where > > you've got a touchable joystick on the bottom left and another one on > > the bottom right. It's very common but currently impossible on > > Android because of the hardware (though I'd really like to see some > > raw data because looking through the core service classes, there is a > > LOT of difficult-to-read code that seems to hack up the values quite a > > bit). > > > > I'll wrote a littlemultitouchvisualizer kind of like Luke's but > > aimed more at showing what you can and can't do with a game control > > system. I'll post the APK so everyone can see what I'm talking about. > > > > Multitouchdefinitely works better on the Droid than on the HTC > > screens but I saw many similar issues involving interactions between > > the two touched spots. It doesn't seem to flip axis as much as the > > HTC screens, though. > > > > This really is unfortunate for the platform as a whole that the > > screens are so weak with this feature. I guess us game guys will just > > have to get a little more creative with our designs. > > > > On Feb 12, 2:30 pm, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ok.. thanks for the pointer Sean. So question for you and Dianne.. > being on > > > the platform team.. if his code works so well.. supposedly better than > the > > > OTA updates for Nexus.. why not just replace what is in Android.. or > add it > > > some how so that all of us developers can have this corrected data? > Maybe I > > > read incorrectly, but from what you and Dianne are saying, the issues > the > > > rest of the guys talk about.. where by touching one place, then a 2nd.. > then > > > lifting one finger, then touch again and the wrong data being sent.. > this > > > has to do with the massive events being sent and the confusion lies in > that > > > the MotionEvent is reporting incorrect data..but somewhere in there is > the > > > correct data.. and from what it looks like, Lukehutch's code resolves > that > > > issue? > > > > > If that is correct, great.. maybe Robert Green and others can take that > > > class of his and retrofit it and report back on this thread if it > works. But > > > if so, why not put that into the core of the framework for all to > benefit? > > > Clearly this has been a problem for the likes of Robert and others who > have > > > done great work with game development and are complaining that it's > ruining > > > the ability to develop comparable (at least in multi-touch) games as > > > iPhone.. so why not provide the corrected data within Android itself? > Or.. > > > why not require that all touch manufacturers.. devices.. report the > right > > > data in some specific way such that the framework provides accurate > > > multi-touch completely? This really seems to be more complex than it > should > > > be for us developers wanting to utilize multi-touch. > > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dianne Hackborn <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > Sorry I meant exactly what I said: this is how the touch screen > hardware on > > > > the Nexus One works (which is essentially the same screen as on the > G1 and > > > > myTouch). The Droid has a sensor from a different manufacturer, with > > > > different behavior. Other phones will likewise have different > sensors. > > > > > > This has nothing to do with the Android platform. Please do not file > bugs > > > > about it. Android is just reporting what the hardware is capable of > > > > reporting. There is no "normalization" for games or such, there is > just the > > > > data the screen provides. (Though there is some special code in the > current > > > > framework for cleaning up the data from the Droid screen; arguably > this > > > > should be in the driver or firmware for it, since this is really > screen and > > > > hardware specific kind of stuff. At any rate, it is not applicable > to basic > > > > screen capabilities like here.) > > > > > > There is a good analysis of the G1 class touch screen here: > > > > > > > http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/full-working-multitouch-on-... > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Sean Hodges < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> I think what Dianne is saying is that the values you are seeing are > > > >> what is raw data returned from the sensor, it's not normalised for > > > >> multi-touch games, or for any particular purpose. > > > > > >> My understanding is that the values returned have different > coordinate > > > >> spaces, and have a tendency to "jump" about when used directly (I > > > >> suspect this second issue is more an artefact of the device-specific > > > >> screen sensitivity, dents, scratches and the impact of screen > > > >> protectors). > > > > > >> Take a look at Luke Hutchison's multi-touch controller, it might > > > >> provide a suitable wrapper for your requirements: > > > > > >> > http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/my-multi-touch-code-ported-... > > > > > >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > Ugh..sorry.. I hate using my moto droid to reply.. fat fingers and > a > > > >> > horrible physical keyboard don't go together. > > > >> > Dianne, I don't understand your response.. it's quite clear from > several > > > >> > developers that the multi-touch has problems severe enough that > > > >> > it's deterring game developers and others that would use it. > You're > > > >> saying > > > >> > that it's normal behavior for the multi-touch to change the > location of > > > >> 2 > > > >> > touches such that one of them is completely not in the location of > where > > > >> you > > > >> > touched it? Is this an Android platform issue with how it handles > sensor > > > >> > data.. or are you saying that the G1, myTouch, Nexus One and Moto > Droid > > > >> (not > > > >> > sure about others) ALL have built their touch sensors to purposely > > > >> report > > > >> > this sort of behavior when you touch, then release, then touch > again as > > > >> > Robert and several other posters have state is happening? > > > > > >> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Dianne Hackborn < > [email protected]> > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Kevin Duffey < > [email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> >>> So what I want to know is what is being done about this? Is > there a > > > >> bug > > > >> >>> file and if so is it > > > > > >> >> This is how the sensor hardware works. It is essentially the > same > > > >> sensor > > > >> >> as the G1 and myTouch. Please don't file a bug about it. > > > >> >> -- > > > >> >> Dianne Hackborn > > > >> >> Android framework engineer > > > >> >> [email protected] > > > > > >> >> Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have > time > > > >> to > > > >> >> provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All > such > > > >> >> questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others > can see > > > >> and > > > >> >> answer them. > > > > > >> >> -- > > > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > >> >> Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > >> >> To post to this group, send email to > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> >> [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]><android-developers%2Bunsubs > [email protected]> > > > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > > > >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> > Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > >> > To post to this group, send email to > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> > [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]><android-developers%2Bunsubs > [email protected]> > > > >> > For more options, visit this group at > > > >> >http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > > > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]><android-developers%2Bunsubs > [email protected]> > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > > > > > > -- > > > > Dianne Hackborn > > > > Android framework engineer > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time > to > > > > provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All > such > > > > questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can > see and > > > > answer them. > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]><android-developers%2Bunsubs > [email protected]> > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Android Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
