So are they all using the same company for the screen? On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Lance Nanek <[email protected]> wrote:
> A more capable multitouch screen probably costs more. If that is the > case, it isn't really surprising that multiple manufacturers would go > with a cheaper, less capable one. > > On Feb 13, 6:51 pm, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> wrote: > > So Robert.. is this a platform issue in your mind.. being that it happens > on > > all android devices currently regardless of manufacturer? Or is it a > driver > > issue for each hand set and just oddly happens to be coincidental that > > various manufacturers have the exact same issue with multi-touch? I am > sure > > what Diane says is accurate... but yet it seems odd that different > > manufacturers have the same problem. > > > > On a slightly different note.. what is the stance of the Android platform > > team as a whole towards game developers? By this I mean, if this is > indeed > > an issue on different manufacturer's handsets.. is it important enough > that > > game developers, which for sure will be a large segment of popularity for > > android as it is on iPhone.. can get this escalated enough to get some > > platform/driver developers looking into it and if possible, tap the > > community (such as Robert) to help, so we can figure out exactly what is > > going on? It just seems too crucial of an issue to overlook being that it > > directly makes it impossible as of now for game developers to really > utilize > > multi touch. > > > > Robert (et all)... an app I want to eventually get around doing is a drum > > machine app.. with multiple drum pads. On the iPhone, an app called > > BeatMaker allows for 5 pads at once to be touched. Would this issue > possibly > > make an app like this not work? I don't even know if Android can handle > more > > than two touches at once.. but there are plenty of apps out there that > will > > use more than two simultaneous touches at once. > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Robert Green <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Ok if you guys want to see what I'm talking about, check out the app I > > > just published called "Multitouch Visible Test." Play around with > > > that and you'll see the problems. If you're interested in developing a > > > multitouch app, check that out first so that you know the limitations > > > of the data you'll be working with. > > > > > On Feb 12, 4:55 pm, Robert Green <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Luke's code cleans up some basic stuff like gestures involving > > > > pinching but it can not fix the two independent point problem. > > > > Currently, even with his code which filters out some noise, it is > > > > impossible to have a reliable control system involving two > independent > > > > virtual joysticks placed along the same axis. So many iPhone games > > > > have that and I was actually planning it for my new release but > > > > unfortunately it will not work. I'm talking about the controls where > > > > you've got a touchable joystick on the bottom left and another one on > > > > the bottom right. It's very common but currently impossible on > > > > Android because of the hardware (though I'd really like to see some > > > > raw data because looking through the core service classes, there is a > > > > LOT of difficult-to-read code that seems to hack up the values quite > a > > > > bit). > > > > > > I'll wrote a littlemultitouchvisualizer kind of like Luke's but > > > > aimed more at showing what you can and can't do with a game control > > > > system. I'll post the APK so everyone can see what I'm talking > about. > > > > > > Multitouchdefinitely works better on the Droid than on the HTC > > > > screens but I saw many similar issues involving interactions between > > > > the two touched spots. It doesn't seem to flip axis as much as the > > > > HTC screens, though. > > > > > > This really is unfortunate for the platform as a whole that the > > > > screens are so weak with this feature. I guess us game guys will > just > > > > have to get a little more creative with our designs. > > > > > > On Feb 12, 2:30 pm, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Ok.. thanks for the pointer Sean. So question for you and Dianne.. > > > being on > > > > > the platform team.. if his code works so well.. supposedly better > than > > > the > > > > > OTA updates for Nexus.. why not just replace what is in Android.. > or > > > add it > > > > > some how so that all of us developers can have this corrected data? > > > Maybe I > > > > > read incorrectly, but from what you and Dianne are saying, the > issues > > > the > > > > > rest of the guys talk about.. where by touching one place, then a > 2nd.. > > > then > > > > > lifting one finger, then touch again and the wrong data being > sent.. > > > this > > > > > has to do with the massive events being sent and the confusion lies > in > > > that > > > > > the MotionEvent is reporting incorrect data..but somewhere in there > is > > > the > > > > > correct data.. and from what it looks like, Lukehutch's code > resolves > > > that > > > > > issue? > > > > > > > If that is correct, great.. maybe Robert Green and others can take > that > > > > > class of his and retrofit it and report back on this thread if it > > > works. But > > > > > if so, why not put that into the core of the framework for all to > > > benefit? > > > > > Clearly this has been a problem for the likes of Robert and others > who > > > have > > > > > done great work with game development and are complaining that it's > > > ruining > > > > > the ability to develop comparable (at least in multi-touch) games > as > > > > > iPhone.. so why not provide the corrected data within Android > itself? > > > Or.. > > > > > why not require that all touch manufacturers.. devices.. report the > > > right > > > > > data in some specific way such that the framework provides accurate > > > > > multi-touch completely? This really seems to be more complex than > it > > > should > > > > > be for us developers wanting to utilize multi-touch. > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dianne Hackborn < > [email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry I meant exactly what I said: this is how the touch screen > > > hardware on > > > > > > the Nexus One works (which is essentially the same screen as on > the > > > G1 and > > > > > > myTouch). The Droid has a sensor from a different manufacturer, > with > > > > > > different behavior. Other phones will likewise have different > > > sensors. > > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with the Android platform. Please do not > file > > > bugs > > > > > > about it. Android is just reporting what the hardware is capable > of > > > > > > reporting. There is no "normalization" for games or such, there > is > > > just the > > > > > > data the screen provides. (Though there is some special code in > the > > > current > > > > > > framework for cleaning up the data from the Droid screen; > arguably > > > this > > > > > > should be in the driver or firmware for it, since this is really > > > screen and > > > > > > hardware specific kind of stuff. At any rate, it is not > applicable > > > to basic > > > > > > screen capabilities like here.) > > > > > > > > There is a good analysis of the G1 class touch screen here: > > > > >http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/full-working-multitouch-on-. > .. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Sean Hodges < > > > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > >> I think what Dianne is saying is that the values you are seeing > are > > > > > >> what is raw data returned from the sensor, it's not normalised > for > > > > > >> multi-touch games, or for any particular purpose. > > > > > > > >> My understanding is that the values returned have different > > > coordinate > > > > > >> spaces, and have a tendency to "jump" about when used directly > (I > > > > > >> suspect this second issue is more an artefact of the > device-specific > > > > > >> screen sensitivity, dents, scratches and the impact of screen > > > > > >> protectors). > > > > > > > >> Take a look at Luke Hutchison's multi-touch controller, it might > > > > > >> provide a suitable wrapper for your requirements: > > > > >http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/my-multi-touch-code-ported-. > .. > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Kevin Duffey < > [email protected]> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > Ugh..sorry.. I hate using my moto droid to reply.. fat fingers > and > > > a > > > > > >> > horrible physical keyboard don't go together. > > > > > >> > Dianne, I don't understand your response.. it's quite clear > from > > > several > > > > > >> > developers that the multi-touch has problems severe enough > that > > > > > >> > it's deterring game developers and others that would use it. > > > You're > > > > > >> saying > > > > > >> > that it's normal behavior for the multi-touch to change the > > > location of > > > > > >> 2 > > > > > >> > touches such that one of them is completely not in the > location of > > > where > > > > > >> you > > > > > >> > touched it? Is this an Android platform issue with how it > handles > > > sensor > > > > > >> > data.. or are you saying that the G1, myTouch, Nexus One and > Moto > > > Droid > > > > > >> (not > > > > > >> > sure about others) ALL have built their touch sensors to > purposely > > > > > >> report > > > > > >> > this sort of behavior when you touch, then release, then touch > > > again as > > > > > >> > Robert and several other posters have state is happening? > > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Dianne Hackborn < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Kevin Duffey < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >>> So what I want to know is what is being done about this? Is > > > there a > > > > > >> bug > > > > > >> >>> file and if so is it > > > > > > > >> >> This is how the sensor hardware works. It is essentially the > > > same > > > > > >> sensor > > > > > >> >> as the G1 and myTouch. Please don't file a bug about it. > > > > > >> >> -- > > > > > >> >> Dianne Hackborn > > > > > >> >> Android framework engineer > > > > > >> >> [email protected] > > > > > > > >> >> Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't > have > > > time > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> >> provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. > All > > > such > > > > > >> >> questions should be posted on public forums, where I and > others > > > can see > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> >> answer them. > > > > > > > >> >> -- > > > > > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > Google > > > > > >> >> Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > > > >> >> To post to this group, send email to > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > >> >> [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]> > <android-developers%[email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]> > ><android-developers%2Bunsubs > > > [email protected]> > > > > > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Android Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. 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