On 24 February 2010 03:44, Joe Bohn <[email protected]> wrote:
> David Jencks wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Alasdair Nottingham wrote:
>>
>>> I'm am new to maven, so sorry if I show my ignorance.
>>>
>>> While I think I can see the value to what you suggest moving forward if
>>> we choose to release sub-projects independantly (I say if because we haven't
>>> discussed or agreed what tbd long term answer is yet) I do not understand
>>> the benefit to a user of Aries of this change.
>>>
>>> As a result it does not appear to me to be key to resolve prior to
>>> release.
>>>
>>> I would like to understand the problems you see better, but I do not have
>>> the maven background you guys have, any chance you could explain what the
>>> problems are, why they are problems and the solution at some point?
>>
>> The biggest immediate problem is that without correct svn info you can't
>> do a release with the release plugin.  I'm pretty sure the way its set up
>> now, when you try, the tag will be under maven's apache pom, not aries.
>>  (you'll fail unless you happen to be a maven committer too). You definitely
>> don't want to try to do a release without the release plugin.
>>
>> Organizationally there's no way that for instance blueprint, application,
>> and samples should always be released in synchrony.  Any time two of them
>> happen to be ready for release at the same time it will be purely
>> accidental.  Right now everyone wants to get a milestone out the door, but
>> looking at the different projects their state of completion is pretty much
>> wildly different.  A decision to release all of them at once is not based in
>> any way on them being equally complete.  I'm suggesting that since build
>> fixes are needed anyway, why not set up a maintainable structure that will
>> continue to work beyond this publicity release.  The benefit to users is
>> that aries will be able to release bits in a timely fashion; otherwise the
>> entire project will never be in a releasable state at once. (I'm only
>> exaggerating a little bit :-)
>>
>> What got me looking at this at all is what look like wild gyrations that
>> don't really use maven properly to get an .eba (or some artifact) out the
>> door.  This might be ok for one release but (a) I think this can be done
>> directly with the assembly plugin short term and (b) an eba-maven-plugin
>> seems like the obvious more long term solution.
>>
>> I'm willing to fix the build and probably work on an eba plugin, but want
>> to be sure this is ok with everyone first.
>
>
> The svn info can be added to support the maven-release-plugin without
> reorganizing to support independent component releases.  But I agree that it
> would be nice to have the option of independent releases even if we intend
> to release all components in this first release.  So in general, I'm in
> favor of the reorganization.

I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. Flexibility is good. We
should have the ability to respond quickly to users who want a new
release of a subproject and not be forced into releasing the entirety
of Aries. So I'm +1 for a reorg to achieve this.

>
> As I mentioned earlier, I am concerned about the eba generation as well.  I
> think a maven-eba-plugin would be preferred versus the alternative I
> mentioned of releasing the ebas simply as jars (again, assuming that the
> application code can deal with an archive of type jar instead of eba). I am
> using the maven-assembly-plugin to generate the jar for the eba in the
> AriesTrader sample but I didn't find the magic formula necessary to create
> the archive with a type of eba rather than jar and so I resorted to using
> ant (which I know is bad).   A maven-eba-plugin or the necessary
> configuration to get the maven-release-plugin to generate something of type
> eba would sure be nice.

Yeah, resorting to ant made be barf too. I prefer a custom eba plugin
over the assembly plugin so we can add our own features more easily,
such as APPLICATION.MF generation.

>
> I guess the key question might be how long it would take to make these
> changes and is it worth the wait.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>> thanks
>> david jencks
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Alasdair
>>>
>>> On 23 Feb 2010, at 18:18, David Jencks <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This discussion got me worried enough to take a look at the aries build.
>>>>    Now I'm even more worried.
>>>>
>>>> While it might feel good to try to push out a release as fast as
>>>> possible I'd prefer to see a sustainable build system in place first.  So
>>>> far it looks to me as if aries is going to be a bunch of loosely coupled
>>>> subprojects.  Building them all at once is not going to work for long.  I
>>>> think we should recognize that and put that in the build system now.  To me
>>>> this means:
>>>>
>>>> 1. a parent pom that isn't at the root of the svn trunk.
>>>> 2. each subproject has pom info sufficient so it can be released (mostly
>>>> svn info)  (right now this is completely missing everywhere as far as I can
>>>> see, which will result in ares getting tagged into svn as part of the 
>>>> apache
>>>> pom)
>>>>
>>>> We can still have a "fake" pom that builds everything, but it won't be
>>>> part of any release procedure.
>>>>
>>>> Having separately released subprojects does not prevent having a single
>>>> vote on all the releases.
>>>>
>>>> I'd suggest a few other pom tweaks such as using resources and
>>>> filtered-resources to distinguish when filtering is called for.
>>>>
>>>> In addition relevant to this particular bit of the thread, we need an
>>>> eba-maven-plugin to assemble ebas.  Getting this into a first release would
>>>> be a great idea IMO.
>>>>
>>>> If there's general agreement I can spend some time playing with the
>>>> build and possibly working on the eba plugin.
>>>>
>>>> thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> david jencks
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 22, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Joe Bohn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy Hughes wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 February 2010 13:09, Joe Bohn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd also like to see us release the sample applications but I think
>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>> at least one complication.  Both Blog Sample and AriesTrader generate
>>>>>>> EBAs
>>>>>>> using different techniques - but both leverage the
>>>>>>> maven-antrun-plugin to
>>>>>>> finally produce a file of type "eba".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realised the .eba file generated in the blog-assembly module wasn't
>>>>>> being pushed into my local repo. I've made some changes to the pom.xml
>>>>>> in ARIES-198 to fix this. So now it uses antrun to create the .eba
>>>>>> artifact and the build-helper-maven-plugin to push the artifact to the
>>>>>> local repo. I needed to add NOTICE and LICENSE files to the .eba for
>>>>>> the ianal plugin in the verify phase to succeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've not used the build-helper-maven-plugin before.  Do you know if it
>>>>> will work with the maven-release-plugin to push the eba artifacts when we 
>>>>> do
>>>>> a release?  If so, then I should look at using the same mechanism for
>>>>> AriesTrader.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the result is that the eba will not be available in a maven
>>>>>>> repository.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the differences is that AriesTrader first generates a jar
>>>>>>> using the
>>>>>>> maven-assembly-plugin and then copies this to an eba.  The jar will
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> managed by maven and IIUC it should be deployable as an "application"
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> with an extension of "jar" rather than "eba".  If that is correct
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> perhaps delivery of an application jar is an acceptable approach for
>>>>>>> the 1st
>>>>>>> release.  Unfortunately I haven't actually setup my equinox assembly
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> deploy the eba yet - it still deploys all of the individual bundles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the maven-assembly-plugin likely the preferred approach long
>>>>>> term. Perhaps we could copy the artifact to .eba and use the
>>>>>> build-helper-maven-plugin to remove the .jar artifact from maven
>>>>>> control and add the .eba one?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can give this a try for AriesTrader.  If it doesn't work out - is
>>>>> there anything wrong with the approach I mentioned earlier of just using 
>>>>> the
>>>>> jar artifacts rather than the eba artifacts?  Will the current application
>>>>> support only look at *.eba archives?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to see at least those included:
>>>>>>>> * blueprint
>>>>>>>> * jmx
>>>>>>>> * jndi
>>>>>>>> * transaction
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think applications are really usable yet and I haven't
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> looked at JPA yet, so can't tell about it.
>>>>>>>> The transaction component is functional and we've been using it
>>>>>>>> mostly
>>>>>>>> unchanged since a long time in ServiceMix.
>>>>>>>> Do you have any particular concerns with it ? (I'm not talking about
>>>>>>>> declarative transactions for blueprint, note).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 04:19, Joe Bohn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the response (even while on vacation!) ... and for
>>>>>>>>> volunteering
>>>>>>>>> to be the release manager.  Your response helps me get a better
>>>>>>>>> picture
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the plans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was really just interested in the general objectives and timing
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> hadn't been discussed yet.  To get the release out in Feb means it
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> delivered next week.  I'm afraid the hill might be a little too
>>>>>>>>> steep to
>>>>>>>>> climb that quickly but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The more communication the better.  It's important to get everybody
>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>> and planning along the same lines (or understand quickly if there
>>>>>>>>> are any
>>>>>>>>> differences of opinion).  Knowing that you are thinking of creating
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> release candidate next week means that we should be getting more
>>>>>>>>> restrictive
>>>>>>>>> on new content to avoid any unpleasant surprises.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have any strong opinions on what should be in or out - but
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> general it doesn't make sense to release things that aren't
>>>>>>>>> functional.
>>>>>>>>> At
>>>>>>>>> the moment I'm not sure what those are - but I suspect not all of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> components are fully functional yet (for example transaction).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeremy Hughes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Joe, sorry I started setting myself up tuesday but am now out
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> vacation until monday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think the 0.1 release should serve to get what we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> right now in the respectable form the ASF requires. So 'must
>>>>>>>>>> haves'
>>>>>>>>>> are to get the build in the right shape to create the distribution
>>>>>>>>>> files that are acceptable to the IPMC. I think each main area of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> code deserves at least a README to describe what's possible. Since
>>>>>>>>>> this is the first release there are likely a few unknowns - w.r.t
>>>>>>>>>> timing I hope/expect to get the release out this in feb. If there
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> particular JIRAs or other issues you feel should be included
>>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>>> say. I'd like to rename the current JIRA version 1.0 to 0.1 and
>>>>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>>>> issues for 0.1 appropriately and issues not for 0.1 to target a
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> 0.2 version. WDYT?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2010 15:39, Joe Bohn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeremy,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are your current thoughts and goals regarding the release
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>>>>> target dates?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it would be good if you could summarize your thoughts in
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps on a page in the wiki that we can keep updated as we make
>>>>>>>>>>> progress.
>>>>>>>>>>> Of particular interest would be the content that we would like to
>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the first release (clarifying what we consider "must have" from
>>>>>>>>>>> "nice
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> have"), the current status of that content, target dates for the
>>>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>>>> and the process that we plan to use to generate the release.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeremy Hughes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12 February 2010 09:39, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, thanks a lot.  Let us know if you need any help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess if you take some notes, it would be interesting to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the wiki.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will. It's been a while since I did one and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> process has
>>>>>>>>>>>> changed quite a bit :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:32, Jeremy Hughes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Kevan, thanks. I volunteer to be release manager.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11 February 2010 16:38, Kevan Miller
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like the consensus is for a release with all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version number. Best to start with a simple versioning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme, IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I don't view a 0.1 blueprint release as an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Showing the ability to generate an Apache release is an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the community. Would definitely like to see this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll need a release manager. Any volunteers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --kevan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joe
>

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