By that definition, I wonder if Jobs and Wozniak needed IP resources today for
their garage - could they get them? Whether you like what they did or not they
certainly have advanced the Internet. And if John and Sue are working in their
garage today and need a /24 or a /22 from ARIN to further the Internet, can
they get them? With today’s policies – probably not as they might not have a
business plan yet, or signed contract with contractors, or gotten their funding
- or any other measure of need that is currently indoctrinated in policy. What
a shame!
Steven Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
www.eclipse-networks.com
770.656.1460 - Cell
770.399.9099- Office
[Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse Networks,
Inc.
Conquering Complex Networks℠
From: Bill Darte [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Jo Rhett; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Steven Ryerse said:
In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based
policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing
the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org
who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from
getting resources? How does that advance the Internet?
The community through ARIN is ensuring that the distribution of v4 IP addresses
are according to its policies which have been and should continue to be
needs-based..IMO. They are not 'caught up' in the sense that they cannot
proceed...ndeed, they are doing the precise business that policy and its
mission calls for. That some orgs that cannot meet the needs hurdle are
denied...does not mean that others who truly have a need are not serviced.
Those with clear need advance the Internet and do so demonstrably...whereas
those without a demonstrable need MAY advance the Internet as well, but its a
greater risk to the community and one which the community has chosen to forgo.
Bill Darte
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Steven Ryerse
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Though it has been a few months since I made those comments, I appreciate your
feedback. Your description of "walk away with someone else’s belongings" seems
to indicate that somehow the use of the Internet and the IP addresses that make
the use of the Internet possible, is owned by ARIN or this Community or maybe
ARIN and this Community.
I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of Jon
Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet. When I read the
original Mission Statement for ARIN or even the current one, I don't see that
"needs" are more important than the actual mission of advancement and
allocation. Good stewardship should be practiced but NOT to the detriment of
the mission of advancement and allocation.
In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based
policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing
the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org
who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from
getting resources? How does that advance the Internet? I never met Jon Postel
but from what I've heard about him, I suspect he would frown on some of the
current policies regarding needs. My comments below and others I have made are
intended to try to bring some balance into the discussion and my hope is that
some day in the near future that will happen. I certainly don't desire there
be no rules at all but the very loose rules followed by Jon Postel worked
pretty well advancing the Internet. I think we could loosen the current
policies like has been done in other regions and it would have a positive
outcome. My two cents.
Steven Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
www.eclipse-networks.com<http://www.eclipse-networks.com>
770.656.1460<tel:770.656.1460> - Cell
770.399.9099<tel:770.399.9099>- Office
℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
Conquering Complex Networks℠
-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Rhett
[mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get
> rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled. I think it is important
> to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud second or
> third or fifth or whatever. We could stop all fraud by stopping all
> allocations but of course that makes no sense. I would also point out that
> even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is still being fulfilled.
I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people with
non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification. That is
ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread fraud occurs and
ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that ARIN would not be doing
their job.
> Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be significantly
> reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent requests.
Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone else’s
belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement is true without
making any sense at all.
> I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell you that
> they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the current arbitrary
> (and they are arbitrary) policy.
I disagree completely. ARIN’s role is to satisfy needs-based requests.
Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job.
The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules at all.
Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy.
--
Jo Rhett
+1 (415) 999-1798<tel:%2B1%20%28415%29%20999-1798>
Skype: jorhett
Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and internet projects.
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