Owen,

if someone needs an IPv4 transfer and wants to use our brokerage firm, believe me we will be happy to assist them and help them get what they need (regardless of whether the needs-based criteria is still in the policy or not). Off course, we will do everything to respect the policies of (all of) the RIRs while helping our customers get what they want.

An unrestricted transfer market may increase the number of transfers we broker - that's true, but in the end 'the money' (you call it profits) will be the same. The number of available (read: unused and ready to be transferred) IP addresses will not change, we (the brokers) will broker them regardless of who the buyer is. What will change is the correct registration (in place of the contracts hidden in a drawer in a lawyer's office).

There is almost a /12 unmet (read: justified) on the ARIN waiting list.. in 2.5 months. We won't probably be able to keep up with the number of companies receiving approvals from ARIN, so.. no I have worries about our 'profits'. What I worry about is that, maybe, those that have the funds will buy the resources and not keep a proper registration because either the policy is too restrictive to them, their employee has not succeeded in convincing the ARIN staff or their future usage plans were maybe not clear enough.

Again, from my experience (we've brokered more than a /11 in the 2 years since our company exists) if someone has the money for it and wants it, they will get it .

regards,
elvis

On 24/09/15 23:37, Owen DeLong wrote:
Of course your position wouldn’t have anything to do with the profits you stand 
to make from an unrestricted transfer market.

Owen

On Sep 24, 2015, at 13:12 , Elvis Daniel Velea <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Owen,

On 24/09/15 22:09, Owen DeLong wrote:
Short answer: NO

Longer answer:

Finance alone does not reflect all community values. Eliminating needs-based 
evaluation for transfers
will foster an environment open to speculation and other artifice used to 
maximize the monetization of
address resources without providing the benefit to the community of maximizing 
utilization.
The environment open to speculation already exists, a needs-based criteria will 
not stop the ones that want to speculate. Keeping needs-based criteria in 
policy will only drive (keep some of the) transfers underground (ie: futures 
contracts, all kind of financial artifices). I actually believe the needs-based 
criteria removal will benefit the community by eliminating a barrier in the 
correct registration of the transfers (resources) in the registry (and whois).

The allocation era has passed, ARIN should just be a shepherd and record the 
transfers (and do the allocation exercise twice per year, when the IANA 
allocates the few crumbs remaining). From my experience and observations, if 
someone needs the IP addresses and has the money to pay for them I am sure that 
they will not be stopped by ARIN's needs-base criteria...
In fact, I believe that eliminating needs-basis will likely cause actual 
utilization to be reduced in the
long run in favor of financial manipulation.
I dare to disagree. From where I am standing, the removal of needs-basis 
criteria from the RIPE Region has increased utilization of the resources 
transferred through the IPv4 marketplace.
Additionally, the removal of the needs-basis criteria has increased the number 
of transfers, showing that the marketplace works and is useful to hundreds (or 
even thousands) of companies from the region.

I am not saying that the ARIN community should copy what the RIPE community has 
done. I am just saying that if something is working and it's usability is 
proven, it is rather strange to see some saying the opposite as an argument 
against the removal of the needs-based criteria.
Owen
cheers,
elvis
On Sep 24, 2015, at 11:55 , Leif Sawyer <[email protected]> wrote:

Now that we've reached the magic ZERO in the free pool, what does the community
think about this new draft policy?

Should ARIN begin the process of streamlining the IPv4 policy so that it is
geared more toward the transfer market, and remove "need" as a criteria in
certain sections of the NRPM to increase the database accuracy?


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of ARIN
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based 
evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks

Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9
Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of 
IPv4 netblocks

On 17 September 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
"ARIN-prop-223 Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 
transfers of IPv4 netblocks" as a Draft Policy.

Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9 is below and can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_9.html

You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft Policy 
2015-9 on the Public Policy Mailing List.

The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this 
draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource Policy as 
stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:

    * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
    * Technically Sound
    * Supported by the Community

The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html

Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html

Regards,

Communications and Member Services
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)


## * ##

Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9
Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of 
IPv4 netblocks

Date: 23 September 2015

Problem statement:

The current policies in NRPM sections 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 regarding transfer of 
IPv4 netblocks from one organization to another are currently a hindrance in 
ensuring database accuracy. In practice, ARIN staff are utilizing those polices 
to refuse to complete database updates which would reflect an accurate transfer 
of control / utilization of netblocks in cases where ARIN doesn't agree that 
the recipient organization has need, or more often where the recipient 
organization bypasses the ARIN registry entirely in order to secure the needed 
IPv4 netblocks in a more timely fashion directly from the current holder.
Additionally, the 8.1 introduction section includes a perceived "threat"
of reclaim which serves as a hindrance to long-term resource holders 
approaching ARIN with database updates when transferring resources. The result 
is that the data visible in ARIN registry continues to become more inaccurate 
over time.

Policy statement:

This proposal is for the following language changes in the respective NRPM 
sections in order to eliminate all needs-based evaluation for the respective 
transfer type, and allow transfers to be reflected in the database as they 
occur following an agreement of transfer from the resource provider to the 
recipient.

Section 8.1 Principles:

- Strike the 3rd paragraph which begins with "Number resources are issued, based on justified need, to 
organizations. . ." since it mostly reiterates other sections of ARIN policy. All transfers are 
subjected to those policies, as called out in 8.2, 8.3, 8.4. Additionally, removing this paragraph removes 
the perceived "threat" of reclaim which serves as a hindrance to long-term resource holders 
approaching ARIN with database updates, since in practice ARIN has not been forcibly reclaiming IP resources 
assigned to "failed businesses."

Section 8.2 Mergers and Acquisitions:

- Change the 4th bullet from:

"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies."

to:

"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies, excluding any 
policies related to needs-based justification or inspection of current or future 
utilization rate."

- Remove entirely the last paragraph which reads "In the event that number resources 
of the combined organizations are no longer justified under ARIN policy at the time ARIN 
becomes aware of the transaction, through a transfer request or otherwise, ARIN will work 
with the resource holder(s) to return or transfer resources as needed to restore 
compliance via the processes outlined in current ARIN policy."

Section 8.3 Transfers between Specified Recipients within the ARIN Region:

- Change the first bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer" from:

"The recipient must demonstrate the need for up to a 24-month supply of IP address 
resources under current ARIN policies and sign an RSA."

to:

"The recipient must sign an RSA."

- Change the 2nd bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer"
from:

"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies."

to:

"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies, excluding any 
policies related to needs-based justification or inspection of current or future 
utilization rate."

Section 8.4 Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients:

- Change the introductory language from:

"Inter-regional transfers may take place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and 
share reciprocal, compatible, needs-based policies."

to:

"Inter-regional transfers may take place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and 
share reciprocal, compatible, policies."

- Change the 2nd bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer"
from:

"Recipients within the ARIN region will be subject to current ARIN policies and sign 
an RSA for the resources being received."

to:

"Recipients within the ARIN region will be subject to current ARIN policies, 
excluding any policies related to needs-based justification or inspection of current or 
future utilization rate, and sign an RSA for the resources being received."

- Remove entirely the 3rd bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer" which 
reads "Recipients within the ARIN region must demonstrate the need for up to a 24-month supply 
of IPv4 address space."

Comments:

a.      Timetable for implementation: Immediate

b.      Anything else

As the "free pool" for 4 of the 5 world's RIRs (APNIC, RIPE, LACNIC, and
ARIN) has now been exhausted, networks in need of additional IPv4 addresses have shifted away from 
the practice of receiving them from the RIR's resource pool. Instead, networks in need are seeking 
out current holders of IPv4 resources who are willing to transfer them in order to fulfil that 
need. Accordingly, the RIR's primary responsibility vis-à-vis IPv4 netblock governance has shifted 
from "allocation" to "documentation." In other words, the focus must move away 
from practicing conservation and fair distribution (e.g. following guidelines set forth in RFC2050) 
to ensuring an accurate registry database of which organization is utilizing a given netblock as a 
result of transfers which occur between organizations.

The RIPE registry can be used as a reference of one which has evolved over the past 
couple years to shift their focus away from conservation/allocation and towards database 
accuracy. IPv4 netblock transfers within that RIR consist merely of validating 
authenticity of the parties requesting a transfer. Provided the organizations meet the 
basic requirement of RIR membership, and that the transferring organization has the valid 
authority to request the transfer, the transaction completes without any 
"needs-based" review.


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