Your definition of terrorism is very very different from mine. Where is
anyone here threatening life or limb or freedom of anyone here or of any
innocent third parties?
On 5/3/2019 09:27 PM, Marilson Mapa wrote:
/"The proponents of this proposal want you to think this proposal only
affects hijackers. That is not the case, this proposal affects anyone
who operates a router. It puts anyone who operates a router in jeopardy
of losing their Internet resources."/
The name of that, Mr. Farmer, is terrorism. You are pre-judging the
proponents and trying to create a threatening environment. Not satisfied
puts proponents as members of a Ku Klux Klan that "want you to think
this proposal only affects hijackers"... (???)
He imputes no motives to the proposers. He just claims the proposal
could harm innocent or inept third parties.
/
/
/"To be honest, I see more of a lynch mob mentality then true justice in
this proposal."/
/"When evaluating this proposal, don't envision a hijacker being judged,
envision yourself being judged by this system, because you just might be."/
This is terrorism. You are trying to implant fear in the defense of "out
of scope". And I see a lynch mob mentality in your arguments.
Then people who warn of global warming or the dangers of vaccine
denialism are engaged in terrorism.
Mr. Farmer, in the face of your behaviour I address to you some of the
questions of the ethical Andrew Bagrin:
I'm curious why do you not want to let ARIN try to start getting
involved to help resolve the issue of hijacking?
Are you doing hijacking and don't want interference?
Are you running a competitive service that you charge for?
BTW, Carlos and Jordi are not asking to approve the text that you say
has ulterior motives. They are asking for help in getting a text that
solves one of the problems of the community. Using terrorist tactics to
counter the proposal just incriminates you.
Marilson
Em sex, 3 de mai de 2019 às 14:22, David Farmer <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu:
Simply getting involved in hijacking is not what is proposed. And,
by the way, ARIN and the other RIRs already are involved, heard of
RPKI, IRR, etc... You can't say the problem is being ignored. Are
these responses truly effective? Maybe not. Do we need to do more?
Probably. Is this the answer? Maybe, but it really scares me.
This proposal wants ARIN and the other RIRs to penalize hijacking.
To do this someone has to judge the intent behind these events. From
the other side of the Internet, it is difficult with any certainty
to tell the difference between a typo and malicious activity in many
of these events.
Have you ever been on a jury in a murder trial? I have. The
difference between the various counts of murder and manslaughter
basically comes down to determining the intent involved in the
actions causing the death of another human being. If you are
involved in the death of someone and even if there is no culpable
negligence or intent on your part, such an event is important enough
for society to scrutinize your actions.
So, I have some questions back to you;
Have you ever mistyped an IP address or an ASN?
Across the Internet, how many mistyped IP addresses and ASNs occur
on a daily basis?
This proposal asks ARIN and the other RIRs to create a system to
scrutinize the actions of network operators and also impose
penalties for those actions. This is not something that should be
taken lightly. It is possible anyone on this mailing list will have
to have their actions judged by this system. The proponents of this
proposal want you to think this proposal only affects hijackers.
That is not the case, this proposal affects anyone who operates a
router. It puts anyone who operates a router in jeopardy of losing
their Internet resources, for possibly something as innocent as
making a typo in their router config.
Do we really need and want to go there? I'm not saying no, but let's
be really sure. And we have to make sure we get the system right,
because any one of us may have to be judged by this system. When I
look at this proposal, I don't see enough due process or safeguards
involved that I feel comfortable subjecting myself to it.
To be honest, I see more of a lynch mob mentality then true justice
in this proposal.
When evaluating this proposal, don't envision a hijacker being
judged, envision yourself being judged by this system, because you
just might be.
Thanks
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:05 AM Andrew Bagrin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I'm curious why do people not want to let ARIN try to start
getting involved to help resolve the issue of hijacking?
Are you doing hijacking and don't want interference?
Are you running a competitive service that you charge for?
Does anyone believe there is a valid reason to hijack and
advertise IP space that you do not own? (when the owner of that
space does not want you to advertise it)
Why would anyone be against ARIN having a process to help
resolve these issues? Sure we can question how effective it
will be, but anything will be more effective than nothing, and
by actually doing, failing and learning, ARIN will only improve
and refine the process. We will all learn from this.
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:08 PM Marilson Mapa
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The president of ARIN describes his institution as an RIR
with appropriate and functional policies. This is what we
can deduce from his speech whenever he describes the
performance of his institution. This same attitude can be
seen in RIPE.
"Violation can have consequence".
It seems that the expression "can have" should be understood
as "almost never", after all how to explain the rot that
permeates the global Internet? The complaints, the lawsuits,
the fines are becoming more and more frequent.
I have today received as a member of BPF Cybersecurity the
document **/UN 1st Committee Processes on Responsible State
Behaviour in Cyberspace explainer**. /This 25-page document,
addressed to ICANN, reports what they call disastrous
behavior. It was drafted by Rubin International Law Firm and
Notary of Israel for a Jewish religious institution.
Basically they are demanding:
"We require ICANN to terminate immediately the activities
fostering Internet addiction, including the performance of
relevant IANA functions, relevant gTLD activities, relevant
Registry Operators' activities, relevant ICANN-accredited
registrars' activities, including through RESP and
amendments of registry and registrar agreements and to
refrain from renewing the .info registry agreement with
Afilias unless Afilias and its related companies terminate
immediately activities fostering Internet addiction and the
.info registry agreement is amended to prohibit Internet
addiction activities."
It's just one of the thousands of complaints popping up
around the globe. And ARIN does not move a finger... It's
out of the scope...
Marilson
Em qui, 2 de mai de 2019 às 17:01, John Curran
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu:
> On May 2, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Carlos Friaças via
ARIN-PPML <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> ...
> It seems evident that a RIR can't revoke legacy
space. Ever.
Carlos -
In the case of ARIN that would be incorrect, as ARIN has
revoked legacy address space from parties that have
violated registry policies.
ARIN registry policies are applicable to all parties in
the registry - those legacy holders under RSA do have
specific terms and conditions (and a reduced fee
schedule), but ARIN registry policies are applicable
regardless and violation can have consequence.
Thanks!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers
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===============================================
David Farmer Email:[email protected] <mailto:email%[email protected]>
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
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