I don't think this is something to celebrate as it puts over control on
membership as both Board and AC are elected exclusively by them while
the ultimate power about policies must always be with community,
otherwise there is no bottom-up process.
The existence of AC as it is is already something exotic. Plus the fact
the AC represents only membership and not community unbalances the
process and in a odd scenario could exclude community totally from the
process in practice.
I understand you appraisal to this due the results so far, and that may
have been because there have been majority of good people in both Board
and AC, or as you said people involved in the process have behaved
according to the requirements. But that is not, by far, a good
governance model as if the people on these bodies change in the future
it allows a easy takeover of the process by bad actors. So in the sense
ARIN have had some luck so far.
Of course those who currently retaining the power would have
justification for this model as it fits well for them and will say that
everything is fine, but looking from the theoretic point of view there
is an unbalance as members should not have the ultimate authority of
what a policy should be, but the community which is above them on this
matter.
Fernando
On 08/09/2021 17:45, Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML wrote:
On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:34 , Elvis Daniel Velea <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Chris,
On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:04, Chris Woodfield <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Don’t forget the the ultimate say does, in fact, lie with the
community, in that the members of the Board and the Advisory Council
are elected by the community.
Allow me to be skeptical about this statement too. I vaguely remember
how a well respected board member was not ‘selected’ for candidacy
for re-election and was not allowed to defend its seat because some
group of people made a decision. This happened just a few years ago
and I had quite a few chats with lots of community members that were
outraged to see this is possible. It was during an ARIN Meeting in
Vancouver, in 2018, if my memory serves me well.
Yes, the nominating committee has broad discretion in eliminating
candidates from the slate, including incumbents.
Also, they are not elected by the community, they are elected by the
membership (in both cases, board and AC).
As such, the members arguably have ultimate authority. The community
has a say, but no actual authority.
While there’s always the potential for a cynical take on the
community’s ability to affect meaningful change when needed, I’d
hope that any egregious policy decisions made by these bodies -
decisions that the community agrees are not in line with their
collective interests - would result in the Board and/or AC members
responsible for those decisions having a much more difficult time
with their future re-election campaigns than they would otherwise.
PDP shouldn’t really work this way. Bottom-up either.
In the ARIN region, it has been mostly functional as we have generally
had both AC and Board members acting in good faith, along with staff
doing the same.
I will credit John’s long leadership with much of this. While John and
I do not always agree, I have to say that he has done an excellent job
of preserving this model of governance and ensuring that staff and the
others involved in the process are behaving according to the
requirements of their office(s). Much like the late senator McCain,
though I rarely agreed with him, both “Johns" have given a great many
years of good and faithful service to a public that owes them both
gratitude and respect.
Owen
/elvis
-Chris
On Sep 7, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Fernando Frediani
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Elvis
I have the same view as you do.
Despite this undertanding (and maybe the Board too - and correct me
if I don't reproduce it accuratelly) I refuse the view that "PDP is
a concession of the Board to the Community" and - this is what
makes it even more controvertial - that 'this does not void ICP-2"
due to historical reasons or whatever justification.
They are entiteled to their opinion but I do not believe that
corrensponds to practical realitty.
I sincerelly hope that not only ARIN Board by any other RIR Board
never void the bottom-up process and respect the ultimate power of
community to choose how policies will be, not the Board
unilaterally at their will.
Obviouslly this doesn't confuse with the prerrogative of the RIR
Board to care about the organization protection and legal
protection and I support that including the prerrogative of the
Boards to ractify proposals that reached consensus.
Regards
Fernando
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021, 14:10 Elvis Daniel Velea, <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi,
On Sep 7, 2021, at 09:10, Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
While the Board delegates the administration of policy
development routinely to the ARIN AC, but it retains
ultimate authority commensurate with the responsibility
that they must bear for the organization.
This is a very useful clarification to have available for
those who continue to argue that the community is the ultimate
authority on policy matters. Thank you.
Very surprised to see John explain how the bottom-up process
works (or not) in ARIN and how much influence the ARIN Board
has on policy.
I am also extremely surprised to see the difference in PDP
between ARIN and the rest of the RIRs as per John’s statement
above.
Elvis
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