Hi Owen, If what you say is true about this mostly being a cleanup operation, then my only question is...why?
I don't see anything broken here, I just see the possibility of things breaking; that is what has me concerned. The fact is, we cannot know what the fallout will be until it happens. Are we willing to take the chance? -Matt On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 18:05 Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Oct 31, 2022, at 15:03, Matt Erculiani <[email protected]> wrote: > > I fully stand by my comments made in-person. I do not support this policy. > > I do not believe making this data harder to access particularly benefits > anyone. If this is a technical challenge that ARIN faces serving this data > at the volume it is requested, perhaps system augmentation is necessary to > support the query load. Perhaps a much lower threshold for throttling might > be a better, cheaper, option. > > > This wouldn’t make the data any more difficult to access, just eliminates > yet another duplication of data that tends to drift out of date. > > If the concern is that there are some "top-talkers" using this field to > construct prefix filters or similar with automation, perhaps ARIN can > petition those organizations directly to use the bulk feed, instead of just > taking it away and forcing their hand. > > > I don’t think this is about burdens on ARIN’s whois servers. This is about > the fact that this source of this data is largely deprecated and that > as an optional field, it tends to be poorly maintained (if it gets > maintained at all). There are much better sources available. > > Worst case scenario, those who previously relied on this field ignore the > guidance, as they have been, may introduce additional queries per second to > get around the missing data, further exacerbating the problem this policy > set out to fix. > > > I think what you are considering the “problem this policy set out to fix” > is a second order effect at best. I view this policy as a database cleanup > effort and as such, I support it. > > I don't think everyone on the Internet would come away from this > completely unscathed. If we're lucky, the fallout will be fairly isolated. > > > I doubt that there will be much damage beyond what already occurs if > anyone relies on this data. IMHO, no data is better than bad data. > Today, that field is largely bad data, where it provides data at all. > > Owen > > > -Matt > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:07 AM ARIN <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 21 October 2022, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced the following >> Draft Policy to Recommended Draft Policy status: >> >> >> >> * ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous System Originations’ Field >> >> >> >> The text of the Recommended Draft Policy is below, and may also be found >> at: >> >> >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_8/ >> >> >> >> You are encouraged to discuss all Recommended Draft Policies on PPML >> prior to their presentation at the next ARIN Public Policy Consultation >> (PPC). PPML and PPC discussions are invaluable to the AC when determining >> community consensus. >> >> >> >> The PDP can be found at: >> >> >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/ >> >> >> >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: >> >> >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/ >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Sean Hopkins >> >> Senior Policy Analyst >> >> American Registry for Internet Numbers >> >> >> >> >> >> Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous >> System Originations’ Field >> >> >> >> AC Assessment of Conformance with the Principles of Internet Number >> Resource Policy: >> >> >> >> Based on community feedback and AC discussion we motion to move >> ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the 'Autonomous System Originations' Field to >> Recommended Draft, with the following change to Language: The removal of >> 'OriginAs' fields from December 31st 2024 to 24 months after board adoption. >> >> >> >> Problem Statement: >> >> >> >> In the last two decades, ARIN has developed multiple services which >> provide mechanisms for Internet Number Resource holders to publish >> information about their routing intentions. >> >> >> >> The optional 'OriginAS' field was invented before RPKI existed in >> practice. At that time, ARIN's Internet Routing Registry (IRR) followed a >> weak authorization model compared to available and in use today such as >> RPKI. The 'OriginAS' data was an improvement compared the other mechanisms >> that were available at that time. >> >> >> >> However, there are issues with the consumption of the data in the >> OriginAS field: >> >> >> >> Consuming the 'OriginAS' field in a high-scale automated pipeline is >> challenging. The consumer needs to enter into a 'Bulk Whois Data' agreement >> with ARIN, download a multiple-gigabytes XML file (which is only generated >> once a day), parse this XML file, and then extract the OriginAS field. >> Querying objects one-by-one via the HTTPS interface does not scale well. >> >> >> >> Policy statement: >> >> >> >> 1. Remove Section 3.5 “Autonomous System Originations” of the NRPM in its >> entirety. >> >> 2. Remove the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database >> >> >> >> Timetable for implementation: >> >> >> >> 1. Removal of section 3.5: Immediate after ARIN Board adoption. >> >> 2. Removal of the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database: 24 months after >> ARIN Board adoption. >> >> >> >> Policy Term: Permanent >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> > > > -- > Matt Erculiani > ERCUL-ARIN > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > >
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