> Posting to the PPML is intimidating. Impostor syndrome is very common in > this industry, and having the ability to have your posts seen by big > name people in our field can be a psychological deterrent.
> Encouraging participation starts with understanding why people could be > discouraged from participating. This is an opt-in list with a high bar > for what we're asked to understand. I've never felt so heard before without having to say a word. > Combine that with the occasional combativeness > displayed by some contributors, and it only becomes more intimidating. I can speak from personal experience that all it takes is a particularly sour interaction as a newer participant to go from: "Wow, this is an exciting cause and this fellowship program was awesome and I can't wait to spend more of my free time on this!" to "Wow, if I wanted to be spoken down to like this, I'd just go to more HOA meetings..." That said, I've had some very positive interactions too and those are always a reassuring sign that there is a sense of belonging to be had at some point. Just my $0.02. -Matt On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 10:42 AM Adair Thaxton <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps making generalizations about the people you wish to participate > more, is not the best way to encourage their participation. > > Posting to the PPML is intimidating. Impostor syndrome is very common in > this industry, and having the ability to have your posts seen by big > name people in our field can be a psychological deterrent. For example, > consider your first "Holy shit, John Freaking Curran just replied to > me!" moment. Nobody wants to say something dumb in front of John > Freaking Curran. Combine that with the occasional combativeness > displayed by some contributors, and it only becomes more intimidating. > > I attended my second ARIN last week and was deeply impressed how > thoroughly people like Kevin Blumberg and Lee Howard know NRPM, just > throwing out section numbers and definitions like they have it > memorized. I do not have that level of familiarity with NRPM (maybe by > Charlotte?) but I've always been an "ask questions anyway" person, and > several new attendees have thanked me for asking questions they had as > well but didn't verbalize. > > Encouraging participation starts with understanding why people could be > discouraged from participating. This is an opt-in list with a high bar > for what we're asked to understand. The policies and definitions are > specific and exacting, sometimes verging on arcane, and the person > you're replying to may well have 20+ years of historical context that > you don't personally have. > > Further, Millennials are fairly well-represented on the ARIN AC - > particularly in an industry where we regularly have to exhort longtime > attendees to please, please, please bring a junior employee with them. > The Fellows program is a great step in encouraging participation from > younger people. Lamenting younger generations' lack of participation is > a disservice to those who jump in with both feet and are invested in > ARIN's mission and future. > > I think we could do a better job with providing links to definitions to > things that are terms of art, on both postings on the PPML and on the > draft policies page. I think that maybe using something like Google Docs > (where contributors may Suggest or Comment, but not edit) would be > interesting. I think that asking newer attendees how they best > understand information may be a step in the right direction - > personally, I appreciated that there were a handful of paper policy > booklets available for those of us who prefer to be able to mark up a > copy on our own! > > Pipermail archives are available, archived, easy to search, familiar, > and automatically generated... but not necessarily well-presented. Just > because they serve a function doesn't mean that function cannot be > improved. > > Adair > > > > > > On 10/30/24 10:13, Fernando Frediani wrote: > > I am on this for a couple of years and still often hear colleagues > > talking about the reasons for low participation on Policy Forums. Some > > blame some discussions are discouraging while other mention email list > > format. > > > > One thing to take in consideration is that these topics are not trivial > > and requires a minimal amount of time and patience dedicated to read, > > understand and write. > > I see that those who don't participate is simply because they don't want > > or don't consider this topic of any priority in their lives and don't > > put up the necessary time. > > > > I think mailing-list continues to be the best method for the discussions > > to happen as it is well established for decades, everything gets > > recorded on both list archives and people's mailboxes and keeps an > > organized record of everything that has happened to be easily consulted > > over time. > > Gen Z and Millennials in general often is seen to resist to email and > > wish to use messaging applications that not only make records go missing > > quiet easily but also reduce the quality of the discussion and taking > > off it important details. > > > > Best regards > > Fernando > > > > On 29/10/2024 13:44, Andrew Dul via ARIN-PPML wrote: > >> > >> In addition to the ability of the community to engage with each other > >> at the public policy meetings, the community has the opportunity to > >> engage with each other in this forum "the PPML." > >> > >> While this forum is open to all who wish to participate, over the > >> years my observation is that the number of people who participate > >> interactively in this forum appears to decline and I hear from various > >> members of the community that they do not participate in the written > >> PPML forum for a number of reasons. > >> > >> We often see the AC shepherds prodding for input only to often see no > >> replies or replies from the same dozen or so participants. This > >> community is much larger than those participants. Over the years, it > >> appears the use of mailing lists has become less comfortable for some > >> community participants. While I understand some of those reasons the > >> fact remains that we are are here to do the public work of developing > >> IP number resource policy and that policy should be carried out in > >> public. If a mailing-list isn't the right method to carry out this > >> public work, then we must figure out what is the right way to continue > >> this work so that IP number resource policy which is developed for the > >> Internet community in the ARIN region is open and reflective of the > >> Internet community that ARIN represents. > >> > >> Andrew > >> > >> > >> On 10/26/24 11:14 AM, Lee Howard via ARIN-PPML wrote: > >>> Top-posting because that's how email has worked for the last 20 years > :-( > >>> > >>> There are three kinds of meetings required in the ARIN Bylaws [1]: > >>> * Public Policy /and /Members Meetings (biannual) > >>> * Annual Meeting (annual) > >>> > >>> A strong delineation between meetings is not the only way to achieve > >>> their objectives. But we must prioritize the core objectives. All of > >>> the laudable big tent objectives are secondary. > >>> In my experience, largely supported by the hallway track, people > >>> don't travel thousands of miles to ARIN Public Policy and Members > >>> meetings to hear department reports and updates from external > >>> agencies. We travel because we can get more conversation about > >>> proposals done in person than in months of PPML. It would be great to > >>> hear from others on why they come: respond to the meeting survey > >>> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ARIN54>! And/or, join this > conversation! > >>> > >>> Again, that is not to say that I'm not interested in the work on > >>> ICP-2 or RPKI or ARIN Online developments: quite the opposite! But I > >>> read the mission statement as a prioritized list: > >>> 1. ARIN supports the operation of the Internet through the management > >>> of Internet number resources throughout its service region; > >>> 2. coordinates the development of policies by the community for the > >>> management of Internet Protocol number resources; and > >>> 3. advances the Internet through informational outreach. > >>> ARIN will continue to utilize an open, transparent multi-stakeholder > >>> process for registry policy development. [2] > >>> > >>> The fact that Hollis and Bill managed the afternoon to get us through > >>> the other ten proposals is amazing. At lunch, we had been through two > >>> of twelve proposals. Based on that rate of progression, nobody > >>> thought we would get through the rest of the draft proposals, and > >>> this was a hot topic in the hallway. So I disagree with you that it > >>> was not an issue: it was a clear issue, and Hollis and Bill were able > >>> to pull us through. > >>> > >>> This isn't the first time we've been tight for time on public policy > >>> discussion; I seem to recall occasions where we had to move > >>> discussion to the list. That almost happened this time, and I think > >>> "How we use attendees' time" especially with regard to public policy > >>> is a significant enough issue to bring it to PPML. If I'm alone among > >>> the community in this concern, I'll settle down. > >>> > >>> Thanks again, and always, for an excellent meeting and for > >>> facilitating robust discussion of issues that are important to the > >>> community. > >>> > >>> Lee > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [1] "ARIN will hold Public Policy and Members Meetings biannually and > >>> in person when possible. ARIN’s Annual Meeting is held annually and > >>> may coincide with an ARIN Public Policy and Members Meeting. " > >>> https://www.arin.net/about/corporate/bylaws/ > >>> Excluding Bylaws about Board and AC meetings. > >>> > >>> [2] https://www.arin.net/about/corporate/bylaws/, Article II, Section > 2 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Friday, October 25, 2024 at 10:53:21 AM EDT, John Curran > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Oct 24, 2024, at 6:36 PM, Lee Howard via ARIN-PPML > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> In the spirit of offering constructive feedback, I would like to > >>>> describe what I would like to see at ARIN Public Policy meetings. > >>>> > >>>> Broadly, the purpose of the Public Policy Meetings is to discuss > >>>> policy and policy proposals. The purpose of the Members Meeting is > >>>> to provide the Members with information about the operation of the > >>>> organization, especially as it will help guide governance, including > >>>> elections. > >>>> ... > >>>> I think this organization will better align the work in each meeting > >>>> with the purpose of the meeting. > >>> > >>> Lee - > >>> > >>> Thanks for sending this! I also noted your comment at the > >>> microphone that we should never shortchange public policy > >>> discussions at these meetings—a view that I strongly agree with > >>> (and observed that, thanks to Hollis and Chair Sandiford’s > >>> excellent moderation, this was not an issue yesterday). > >>> > >>> As you are aware, we tended to have a stronger delineation > >>> between the Public Policy Meeting and the Members Meeting in the > >>> past, and it is true that we could organize that way in the > future. > >>> > >>> However, I believe there are a few factors to consider before we > >>> commit to a strict delineation – > >>> > >>> 1. In recent years, we’ve been able to “expand the tent” of ARIN > >>> members; in other words, members are no longer limited to > >>> ISPs and large organizations. Due to changes in membership > >>> structure, nearly every customer is now an ARIN member. As > >>> such, those participating in our public policy discussions > >>> are largely ARIN members—individuals from organizations that > >>> pay fees to support ARIN, receive services from ARIN, and can > >>> (if they wish) become general members and participate in > >>> ARIN’s governance. > >>> 2. We are also in an era where ARIN is engaged in many > >>> activities beyond just number resource policy, which have the > >>> potential for significant implications for all of ARIN’s > >>> customers. For example, topics such as the evolution and > >>> deployment of RPKI services, the current ICP-2 update > >>> activities, and our cybersecurity efforts are not public > >>> policy per se, but they have equally significant potential > >>> impacts on ARIN’s customers. As such, these topics deserve to > >>> be informed by feedback from our entire customer community. > >>> 3. Finally, I note that ARIN is committed to capacity > >>> development within the ARIN community—i.e., we aim to improve > >>> the knowledge and experience of our entire community. Over > >>> time, this has proven to help grow our pool of volunteers who > >>> advance to important roles such as the ARIN AC, the ASO AC, > >>> and the ARIN Board of Trustees. Those participating in our > >>> meetings presently gain broad exposure to all aspects of ARIN > >>> – not just number resource policy development – and I do > >>> worry that a strict delineation of the Public Policy Meeting > >>> and the Members Meeting could hinder an important element of > >>> cross-pollination that has historically bolstered leadership > >>> development from within ARIN’s community. > >>> > >>> > >>> To be clear, I am not saying that a clear distinction between the > >>> two aspects of the meeting is no possible, but rather that there > >>> are potential downsides that should be considered and balanced > >>> against any benefits we hope to achieve by such delineation. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> /John > >>> > >>> John Curran > >>> President and CEO > >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARIN-PPML > >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > >>> Please [email protected] if you experience any issues. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARIN-PPML > >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > >> Please [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-PPML > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > -- Matt Erculiani
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