I think what makes people upset is that there is very little practical difference between ubuntu and debian. That simply their is much proprietary software which in their view has no business being on ubuntu, as it provides no service to the user. I don't think it's purist so much as a legitimate concern that regardless of the practicality of being libre, those developing and pushing ubuntu don't seem to care about FOSS any more than a train enthusiast cares about building model trains. For them, it looks like ubuntu is being developed for the fun of it, not for the good of it, and because of that they have very little faith that if it was much easier to ship libre computers that they would do so. It's kinda like Donald Trump promising free health care for all, how does that measure with the type of person Trump is? I'm sure any person who asked that question would have anticipated it wasn't going to happen with Trump. I think it's not unreasonable to try and look at the type of people those running system76 are and to ask whether they don't run libre because it's not practical to (which it isn't practical) or because they simply don't care (which it also seems they don't). Make sense? I'm sure I worded that confusingly xP
On 4/22/17, Bill Kontos <[email protected]> wrote: > This discussion is of limited usefulness when it comes to system76 making > laptop or desktop housings, because their laptops are not developed > in-house, the cases, keyboards, trackpads and screens are outsourced from > Clevo. If you want libre cards from them there is absolutely no way to > convince them to do this right now. They will not spend time reverse > engineer. What they are doing right now is that they are using their > leverage as a relatively high volume customer to push for open sourcing > dirvers or if that is not possible ask for schematics to write them > themselves( which is what they seem to do in things like DACs etc). > > So anyway, they do provide to the libre world. Nothing is locking you into > only using ubuntu in their laptops and all the code they are writing is > FOSS. I'm tired of all the purists that will bash every company that does a > step in the right direction but does not go all the way through, even when > that company was started somewhere around 2005 in a guy's basement when the > ecosystem was much less mature and they had almost no funding at all( or > because they call it linux and not GNU/Linux). > > On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:40 AM, John Luke Gibson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On 4/22/17, Lyberta <[email protected]> wrote: >> > zap: >> >> System76 isn't really a good idea due to the ubuntu and linux rather >> >> than even debian or free software and libre... Trisquel would be by >> >> far >> >> better free software wise, but I think you get my point, >> >> Ubuntu is nowhere near as free software friendly as debian. at least >> >> by >> >> default without turning it into trisquel. >> >> I am sure thinkpenguin knows this all too well >> > >> > Exactly. Had they shipped Debian, I would have some respect for them as >> > Debian clearly marks all non-free software. I use Debian myself and I >> > have GPU and WiFi blobs installed but I know full well what they are >> > and >> > I explicitly has given an order to install them. >> > >> > Ubuntu on the other hand install tons of proprietary crap without >> > asking >> > the user. I would never have respect for companies who ship computers >> > with Ubuntu. >> > >> > Debian is a compromise, but a compromise I'm willing to make. Ubuntu is >> > tyranny. >> > >> > >> >> The curious thing about data-mining, is that it is one way for ai to >> learn about us. In fact as the data comparisons become more >> complicated, it becomes virtually impossible for companies like amazon >> to spy on us without implementing infant ai into their process. This >> makes me wonder what happens when said ai "grows up" (as there are >> already techniques implemented which give ai [I'm sure limited] access >> to their own code) only seeing humans from the narrow scope of spying >> on people's computer usage remotely and through the filter of ruthless >> advertisers. And, what happens when the people concerned about the >> growing influence of these advertisers and propagandists; these ai >> master's greatest critics, suddenly are off the radar of these >> hypothetical ai simply because they refuse to be spied on. >> >> I don't mean to really doubt the project, by all means this suggestion >> should really make the weight of what we are doing seem more >> pronounced, but it makes me wonder, while the motive and the very way >> in which the spying makes itself sustainable is inherently wretched, >> if all the direct consequences are bad. If a true ai can be developed >> with access to incredible surveillance tools which make it able to see >> and understand almost all sides of humanity, don't you think that >> would make the being more sympathetic and likely wise enough to defend >> itself against humanity without simply retaliating. I mean quite >> literally these advertisers are training these ai to help them be more >> persuasive, shouldn't that mean the ai will be able to be more >> diplomatic in situations where it's own existence or wellbeing is at >> risk. >> >> This is all just hypothetical, but food for thought. >> Perhaps this is a reason to publish more of our more-frivolous >> personal data to the live internet, to compensate for the lost >> perspective had by counteracting big-data-espionage. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> arm-netbook mailing list [email protected] >> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook >> Send large attachments to [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list [email protected] http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to [email protected]
